Navy Reserve COVID Vaccinations by October

[Flash]

On the broad brush applied to religious waivers, I guess there have been no overt declarations I know of, but zero waivers speaks for itself. As the Navy can separate individuals for a couple good reasons for refusing the vax, it would have simply been better to not offer a religious exemption rather than carry on a charade. To deny a religious accommodation suggests the Navy does believe you are sincere in your convictions. Aside from the fact the Navy can not know that for certain, it can not be so for 100% of the applications.

I admit not knowing the actual process of religious waiver excepting that the chaplaincy is involved. I'd be interested in the specifics and even what the denial letter looks like. I would expect the chaplaincy can't help but start from a sympathetic view point and go from there.

The caution of making sweeping declarations would apply here.

I agree with you that a number of the religious exemptions sought were likely due to the politicization of the vaccine (and the pandemic in general), but the fact is that none of us knows which or how many religious exemptions fall into that category. I'd offer an alternative perspective: that the wide publicity and visibility of the development of the vaccine brought to light to a large number of people the moral implications involved, namely the used of fetal cell lines, in a way that hasn't been done in medicine in a long time. Bolstering this argument is the statement the Catholic Church made speaking to the morality of the COVID-19 vaccines here, reaffirming their position that while it is morally acceptable to receive these vaccines when no better alternative exists, it must still be voluntary, subject to the individual's own conscience, and that we should continue to encourage the development of a vaccine that do not create problems of conscience. This is why it's possible for some Catholics to have no issue receiving the vaccine but others to claim that their personal religious beliefs do not permit it.

I understand that perspective and appreciate that how vaccines are made has received far more scrutiny and awareness with the pandemic, but it still doesn't change that a servicemember refusing the vaccine still impedes military preparedness and probably should be discharged as a result even if their religious convictions or beliefs have changed.

 

[MGoBrew11]

I agree with you that a number of the religious exemptions sought were likely due to the politicization of the vaccine (and the pandemic in general), but the fact is that none of us knows which or how many religious exemptions fall into that category. I'd offer an alternative perspective: that the wide publicity and visibility of the development of the vaccine brought to light to a large number of people the moral implications involved, namely the used of fetal cell lines, in a way that hasn't been done in medicine in a long time. Bolstering this argument is the statement the Catholic Church made speaking to the morality of the COVID-19 vaccines here, reaffirming their position that while it is morally acceptable to receive these vaccines when no better alternative exists, it must still be voluntary, subject to the individual's own conscience, and that we should continue to encourage the development of a vaccine that do not create problems of conscience. This is why it's possible for some Catholics to have no issue receiving the vaccine but others to claim that their personal religious beliefs do not permit it.

Bingo

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

I understand that perspective and appreciate that how vaccines are made has received far more scrutiny and awareness with the pandemic, but it still doesn't change that a servicemember refusing the vaccine still impedes military preparedness and probably should be discharged as a result even if their religious convictions or beliefs have changed.

Yup, I completely agree. I only meant to point out that it should be less about scrutinizing one's beliefs, and more about the operational necessity of the vaccine. As that requirement has already been established, I expect all religious exemptions for the vaccine will continue to be denied on that basis.

 

[wink]

The caution of making sweeping declarations would apply here.

ZERO religious exemptions. That would be sweeping. Actions speak louder than words.

I understand that perspective and appreciate that how vaccines are made has received far more scrutiny and awareness with the pandemic, but it still doesn't change that a servicemember refusing the vaccine still impedes military preparedness and probably should be discharged as a result even if their religious convictions or beliefs have changed.

We agree. So lets just drop the whole religious waiver option. It is a crock of shit. Going through the motions with a predetermined outcome, for other justifiable reasons, devalues the whole process AND the Navy's outlook on religion.

 

[Brett327]

To deny a religious accommodation suggests the Navy does believe you are sincere in your convictions.

No. It means the Navy reserves the right to set policy and evaluate risk in spite of a service member's religious objections, I.E., they are but one factor in the overall risk calculus. For reasons already made clear, the Navy has decided the risk of accommodating the religious exemptions is too great.

 

[ABMD]

No. It means the Navy reserves the right to set policy and evaluate risk in spite of a service member's religious objections, I.E., they are but one factor in the overall risk calculus. For reasons already made clear, the Navy has decided the risk of accommodating the religious exemptions is too great.

Serious question, then why allow a service member to file one?

 

[Brett327]

Serious question, then why allow a service member to file one?

I presume there are legal arguments for doing so, to provide a standardized process for people to state their case. Probably a better question for a JAG to address.

 

[DanMa1156]

Serious question, then why allow a service member to file one?

I think there could be legitimate circumstances where one could have one and to say that there never will be one would be a problem and an overgeneralization. With that said, there have been many medical and administrative exemptions, even temporarily given to members.

 

[ABMD]

I think there could be legitimate circumstances where one could have one and to say that there never will be one would be a problem and an overgeneralization. With that said, there have been many medical and administrative exemptions, even temporarily given to members.

I think the difference between a medical or administrative exemptions and a religious exemption is black and white. With those first 2, the basis for approving/declining is physical, you can see it or it's results. Whereas a religious exemption is a matter of the heart (not trying to get philosophical). Also, if we are saying those who filed a religious exemption and it gets denied have a choice of getting the shot or separation, for readiness sake, then the same should be said for those that receive a medical or administrative exemption. If they can't get vaccinated that is hurting their readiness too and should be shown the door.

And the population of those seeking an exemption isn't lost on me, I realize it is tiny relative to the size of the force.

 

[DanMa1156]

I think the difference between a medical or administrative exemptions and a religious exemption is black and white. With those first 2, the basis for approving/declining is physical, you can see it or it's results. Whereas a religious exemption is a matter of the heart (not trying to get philosophical). Also, if we are saying those who filed a religious exemption and it gets denied have a choice of getting the shot or separation, for readiness sake, then the same should be said for those that receive a medical or administrative exemption. If they can't get vaccinated that is hurting their readiness too and should be shown the door.

And the population of those seeking an exemption isn't lost on me, I realize it is tiny relative to the size of the force.

I disagree. If I'm getting cancer treatment and being advised to not get the booster, or I had adverse effects from the original series and my doctor recommends that I do not get the booster, then I think there's a case to be made. Most of those exemptions from what I understand are "temporary," as in, when the member is well-enough, they are expected to vaccinated.

To say there could never be someone who has a legitimate religious exemption that the military could accommodate is an overstatement. But, I'm not surprised to find one that has not been approved yet.

 

[Spekkio]

Serious question, then why allow a service member to file one?

The policy is to allow people to file religious waivers for vaccinations in general, not just for COVID-19. The Navy could waive vaccinations against diseases that would present a significantly lower risk to force readiness.

I think the difference between a medical or administrative exemptions and a religious exemption is black and white.

I don't think it is.

The Navy is denying religious waivers not on the grounds that someone is 'faking it,' but on the grounds that doing so presents too much operational risk. If that is the case, then the Navy should also be refusing all medical waivers, and instead should be A) placing the sailors in LIMDU until vaccination is safe or B) discharging sailors where the condition is permanent.

To grant exceptions for medical reasons but not religious reasons under the premise of operational risk is logically inconsistent.

 

[snake020]

ZERO religious exemptions. That would be sweeping. Actions speak louder than words.

We agree. So lets just drop the whole religious waiver option. It is a crock of shit. Going through the motions with a predetermined outcome, for other justifiable reasons, devalues the whole process AND the Navy's outlook on religion.

USMC just approved two religious exemptions.

Marine Corps Grants Two Religious Exemptions for COVID-19 Vaccine - USNI News

The Marine Corps has approved the Pentagon’s religious exemptions for the COVID-19 vaccine. The service approved two religious exemptions, it announced in its weekly update Thursday afternoon. There have been 3,350 religious exemption requests from Marines as of date, and 3,212 and have been...

news.usni.org

 

[snake020]

Some of you were quick to dismiss the Navy SEAL case from Texas, but that was upheld on appeal and now could potentially go before the Supreme Court:

Pentagon asks Supreme Court to allow it to stop the deployment of unvaccinated SEALs

The request comes after a federal judge in Texas blocked the Navy from halting the deployment of Navy SEALs who won't comply with the military's vaccine mandate.

www.npr.org

If that wasn't crazy enough, now you have a federal court blocking Navy from dismissing a CO for loss of confidence and creating a Mexican standoff on the ship's readiness. I imagine there's a lot of awkwardness amongst that crew trying to sort out who is in charge?

Navy Says Destroyer is 'Out of Commission' After Florida Judge Blocks Removal of Unvaccinated CO - USNI News

An East Coast guided-missile destroyer is “out of commission” after a federal judge in Florida prevented the Navy from removing its commanding officer for his refusal to get vaccinated against COVID-19, the service said in ongoing legal action. Judge Steven Merryday ruled in a February decision...

news.usni.org

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Some of you were quick to dismiss the Navy SEAL case from Texas, but that was upheld on appeal and now could potentially go before the Supreme Court:

Pentagon asks Supreme Court to allow it to stop the deployment of unvaccinated SEALs

The request comes after a federal judge in Texas blocked the Navy from halting the deployment of Navy SEALs who won't comply with the military's vaccine mandate.

www.npr.org

If that wasn't crazy enough, now you have a federal court blocking Navy from dismissing a CO for loss of confidence and creating a Mexican standoff on the ship's readiness. I imagine there's a lot of awkwardness amongst that crew trying to sort out who is in charge?

Navy Says Destroyer is 'Out of Commission' After Florida Judge Blocks Removal of Unvaccinated CO - USNI News

An East Coast guided-missile destroyer is “out of commission” after a federal judge in Florida prevented the Navy from removing its commanding officer for his refusal to get vaccinated against COVID-19, the service said in ongoing legal action. Judge Steven Merryday ruled in a February decision...

news.usni.org

Giving the other perspective… take a look at the judges who “decided” both cases.

The lawyers intentionally went to both those judges/courts knowing the judges *likely* stance.

 

[Mirage]

Giving the other perspective… take a look at the judges who “decided” both cases.

The lawyers intentionally went to both those judges/courts knowing the judges *likely* stance.

Naturally... This is done by both sides of the aisle all the time. That's the problem with judges deciding that they can legislate from the bench by claiming things like the constitution is a living document thats meaning changes with time. No, it doesn't. What they wrote and what they meant when they wrote it is written in ink.