Can you describe or point to what the normal exemption process is?
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Navy Reserve COVID Vaccinations by October
- Thread starter snake020
- Start date
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
For someone who loves shotgunning random articles and tweets into this forum, you took an interesting opportunity to be lazy.
The CFR for influenza is 4-8 per 100,000. The CFR for COVID-19 currently sits at 1,600 per 100,000.
You're equating the forcible abstination to an activity to taking a vaccine, and that's just...not the same thing.
As for the military banning smoking and tobacco use, you're just not paying attention. I can tell you that both activities are not authorized while underway on a submarine.
I’m tempted to say figure it out yourself since it’s very well advertised, but whatever. Milpersman 1730-020 is your starting point. The quick version - For a religious exemption to a vaccination, member has to meet with chaplain and get a recommend/non recommend. Has to get briefed by medical on risks of not taking. Has to add a personal statement. CO then makes a recommendation based on a standardized set of criteria to whoever approving authority is.
It gives leadership a standardized way of balancing the readiness impacts of a waiver against the religious needs of Sailors. Approval level depends on what you are asking to get waived.
Blindly granting religious exemptions with no process seems to miss the point of standard policies.
Can you cite that from a recent source? I couldn’t find anything recent, much less a worldwide versus specific to America one, and I’d hate to pass bad gouge.
How is that not a thing? I’m taking the vaccine to ensure force readiness, right? If I’ve had covid, natural immunity is better than the vaccine. Smoking lowers force readiness. That’s an absolute slam dunk no-brainer. By getting a shot, I’m making the Navy more lethal. By stopping smoking, I’m making the Navy more lethal. Is that not the case?
As for part two, that's comical. You need to broaden your horizons and get out more. The rest of the Navy doesn’t abstain from tobacco use underway. Or ashore.
Remember, all these active duty folks are looking at this through their lens and offering their expertise on a thread in the Naval Reserves forum. So they have no idea how policy is going to be applied to our world.
@SteveHolt!!! which Chaps does a sailor meet with? The one assigned to his NOSC, his cross-assigned NOSC, the active duty one in his area, or the one that handles the unit he supports on AT?
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Sure
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. I'd imagine there's some study somewhere that says that a complete no-smoking policy among the military would hurt recruitment and retention to the point that the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
I'm aware the policy isn't universal. The point is that it exists and it isn't overturned on the argument that it violates anyones rights.
Got it. No, you can’t cite anything. I’ve googled it and the majority of the data is from the fall 2020 timeframe. A lot has changed since then.
Any luck with the companies who’ve mandated the flu shot in recent years?
If the Navy’s sub force isn’t seeing negative retention rates based on the draconian policy of no smoking or dipping underway, mandate it for the rest of the fleet. Isn’t that the same argument others are using here?
What I’m getting at is the underlying reason for the vaccination policy in the first place. As someone else pointed out, it doesn’t seem to be a major factor for our military personnel. When you have almost ten times the number of military people killing themselves than are dying of covid, I have trouble seeing the urgent necessity other than for politics’ sake.
Let me paraphrase the article: suicides rates went up by 15%, but that’s normal even though it’s very bad and isn’t due to covid policies and restrictions. I’m sure that passes the stink check.
Military suicide deaths increase but not seen as linked to COVID-19 pandemic
The number of deaths by suicide in the military increased last year but it does not appear related to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
I'm sorry, I must have missed it... is it your contention that the deadliness of influenza has substantially changed since the year 2000?
Perhaps you should write the CNO and tell him this. Personally, I would support a force-wide ban in tobacco use, but I can't speak to why that policy hasn't been enacted.
Asking someone to take a shot for 2 seconds is a lot different than asking them to stop tobacco use forever. I'm sorry that your brain can't comprehend this.
Suicide rates are down in the Navy. The suicide issue is almost entirely driven by the USMC and Army, with a helping hand from the USAF recently, and it's not COVID policies that drove the increase.
No need to get upset. I’m asking you to provide recent, up to date covid IFR data. If it’s so deadly to the military age demographic, surely it must be readily available.
Do you remember the videos of people dropping dead in the street in China? Crazy that hasn’t happened here. And the videos of the ICUs being overwhelmed in Italy that were passed off as being in America? What’s happened? How come this isn’t leading the news every night?
My contention is that the IFR of covid may be just slightly inflated. Surely you’re bright enough to understand that the data that’s been presented to us may not be wholly accurate.
As far as suicide rates, that’s great they’re down in the Navy. But this is a DOD-wide mandate, right? Why shouldn’t we be concerned about our brothers and sisters in arms? What’s driving their increase in suicide rates?
Also, looking forward to seeing the list of Fortune 500 companies that mandated flu shots for employees in the last decade. I’m sure the money in covid vaccines hasn’t driven any of this.
Here's what Covid vaccines are worth to Big Pharma
The various Covid-19 vaccines currently being distributed around the globe have the potential to end the worst pandemic in a century. They also will mean hundreds of billions dollars in sales for the pharmaceutical companies that make them.
So what you are saying is that since you made this up and posted it on the internet, it must be true.
I've never heard of a company mandating flu vaccines.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
I'm not upset at all. Surely you must know that the IFR is only possible to estimate, not measure. And surely you know that it's upper bound by the CFR and lower bound by the PFR. Furthermore, I'm sure you know that the flu's average CFR is 4-8 per 100,000 cases and peaks at around 15 per 100,000 cases (btw, this fact was in the abstract of the top scientific article in the lmgtfy link, so I'm not sure why you had difficulty finding it), as opposed to the current COVID-19 CFR of 1,600 per 100,000 cases.
I cited the Navy because it had the most draconian COVID-19 policies, yet suicide is down. What's driving suicide rates? I dunno, maybe it's because we're routinely tasking 18-25 year olds to kill muslim children in countries that have no real ability to defend themselves. The DOD doesn't think so, though. It thinks suicide is a generational problem stemming from millenial and gen z fragile egos, even though the suicide rate is 50% lower than it was in the 1930s.
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Recommend you take a look at the suicide rate among Vietnam vets.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
I was speaking from an active duty standpoint. Veteran suicides are another animal and is interwoven with veteran homelessness.
The point is, it's not as much a "generational problem" as you might think.
What point do you think you’re making? Life is hard for you poor reservists so we should just hand out exemptions with no process?
An immunization was added to the schedule after assessing readiness impacts and risk. Requesting an exemption should require a process beyond saying “I don’t wanna”, and it doesn’t matter whether you’re active or reserve. The instruction is pretty liberal on which chaplain you use and how the interview is done.