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Navy or Air Force, Pilot or Spec Warfare?

Hey guys,

My buddy turned me onto this forum years ago and I recently found a note I had written the URL on, I figured this would be a great place to ask a few basic questions to get opinions.

I'm a college grad looking to join the military as I am finding I had the corporate, 9-5 world; I get paid well, but the jobs suck. I have 2 Bachelor of Science degrees, one in Cybersecurity and one in Computer Science; I am only 23 and graduated in 2019.

I'm trying to decide between the Air Force and the Navy for either of their piloting of Spec Forces/Spec Ops rates. I was wondering if anyone would have any experience as a PJ and could shed some light as to what they do, there's plenty out there about SEALs, but any info on them would be appreciated as well. Also, for the pilots, the difference in the Air Force and Navy piloting programs and which you would recommend. I really don't want rotary, I want fighter or reconnaissance aircraft.

What test scores do I need for the various jobs, and I know there are different tests for Officer and Enlisted, any idea what rank I would be bumped to if I went enlisted with my degrees? Any study guides? I took the ASVAB back in highschool, so I know I haven't seen some of that stuff for well over 6 years, same with the ASTB. I took the OAR once, any way to train for that to get better scores?

For the Air Force, what does selection look like after indoc? Is it like the Navy where you have to choose from what they have open, or do you get to push for a specific aircraft?

Any and all information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!
 

Sonog

Well-Known Member
pilot
Hey guys,

My buddy turned me onto this forum years ago and I recently found a note I had written the URL on, I figured this would be a great place to ask a few basic questions to get opinions.

I'm a college grad looking to join the military as I am finding I had the corporate, 9-5 world; I get paid well, but the jobs suck. I have 2 Bachelor of Science degrees, one in Cybersecurity and one in Computer Science; I am only 23 and graduated in 2019.

I'm trying to decide between the Air Force and the Navy for either of their piloting of Spec Forces/Spec Ops rates. I was wondering if anyone would have any experience as a PJ and could shed some light as to what they do, there's plenty out there about SEALs, but any info on them would be appreciated as well. Also, for the pilots, the difference in the Air Force and Navy piloting programs and which you would recommend. I really don't want rotary, I want fighter or reconnaissance aircraft.

What test scores do I need for the various jobs, and I know there are different tests for Officer and Enlisted, any idea what rank I would be bumped to if I went enlisted with my degrees? Any study guides? I took the ASVAB back in highschool, so I know I haven't seen some of that stuff for well over 6 years, same with the ASTB. I took the OAR once, any way to train for that to get better scores?

For the Air Force, what does selection look like after indoc? Is it like the Navy where you have to choose from what they have open, or do you get to push for a specific aircraft?

Any and all information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

Of the following movies, which have you watched more than 3 dozen times?:
A.) Top Gun
B.) Iron Eagle
C.) Navy Seals
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
Hey guys,

I'm trying to decide between the Air Force and the Navy for either of their piloting of Spec Forces/Spec Ops rates.
Air National Guard. If you can get a pilot slot in a unit flying what you want to fly, then you can fly that thing for 20 years, or until they switch from tacticool to air tankers. And you can make it a part time gig while you earn dollars cyber-ing.

Cybersecurity and one in Computer Science
Penn State?
 
Air National Guard. If you can get a pilot slot in a unit flying what you want to fly, then you can fly that thing for 20 years, or until they switch from tacticool to air tankers. And you can make it a part time gig while you earn dollars cyber-ing.


Penn State?
Thomas College. A small school in Maine.

I looked at the ANG website, looks like you can go in as a literal Fighet Pilot slot?
 

Ghost SWO

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I'm trying to decide between the Air Force and the Navy for either of their piloting of Spec Forces/Spec Ops rates. I was wondering if anyone would have any experience as a PJ and could shed some light as to what they do, there's plenty out there about SEALs, but any info on them would be appreciated as well. Also, for the pilots, the difference in the Air Force and Navy piloting programs and which you would recommend. I really don't want rotary, I want fighter or reconnaissance aircraft.
For some reason this paragraph just screams USAF to me. If you REALLY don't want rotary, I think the USAF has a smaller percentage of rotary and a higher likelihood of fighters? The USAF also has several rates (AFSC's) that are Special Warfare; CCT, TACP, PJ, SOWT. As a side note, if you go to a Spec Ops rate, get used to being stationed on an Army base for most of your USAF career.
What test scores do I need for the various jobs, and I know there are different tests for Officer and Enlisted, any idea what rank I would be bumped to if I went enlisted with my degrees? Any study guides? I took the ASVAB back in highschool, so I know I haven't seen some of that stuff for well over 6 years, same with the ASTB. I took the OAR once, any way to train for that to get better scores?
Coming in with a degree will get you E-3 for both branches. Barrons Study Guide people say is good, I think the study guides are fairly basic. Look up Kyle's study guide on this website, people swear by it for OAR/ASTB prep. Studying for the ASTB should prepare you for the AFOQT and vice versa.
Are you thinking enlisted USAF/USN Spec Ops jobs since you mention ASVAB? USAF PJ - 43 ASVAB minimum, PT minimums, and a myriad of medical req's.
USAF Pilot: AFOQT - 65+ PCSM (Pilot Candidate Selection Method)
USN Aviator (Pilot): ASTB - 7/7/7+ (Academic Qualifications Rating / Pilot Flight Aptitude Rating / Flight Officer Aptitude Rating)
For the Air Force, what does selection look like after indoc? Is it like the Navy where you have to choose from what they have open, or do you get to push for a specific aircraft?
Depends on your flight school performance compared to your peers and is needs of the Navy/USAF. You'll put whatever you want on your dream sheet. That doesn't mean it will be available or you'll get it, that goes for both branches. I think you could get rotary with either branch even if you don't write it down, so there's that.

The benefit of something like the ANG as previously mentioned is you will apply to a specific unit and their associated airframe. That way you know what you'd be flying and not have to worry about the needs of the military airframe selection which is largely out of your control.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
A long time ago I was a reconnaissance Marine, kind of dinosaur SOF by today's standards. Later I spent a lot of time working with (strap-hanger is the word they would use) our finest snake-eaters from across the joint (and international) spectrum. To be honest, your post doesn't give the SpecOps vibe but this is an online discussion so who knows. Still, those guys are laser focused on the job...even when they were not that sure what the job was. You aren't showing that, yet.

Do you want to drive small boats with lots of guns? Do you want to be a meteorologist? Do you want to save lives or take them? @Ghost SWO got the feeling you wouldn't want rotary (and you wrote as much), but that is where the cool SOF flying takes place. Most USAF SOF jobs are what you might call "hard support," comms, weather and such attached to SF units. The Army has even more jobs like that to include JTAC, CA, and PSYOP types. So, of course, does the Navy (like the small boats mentioned above and a host of others - like JTAC).

Flying is a different thing. Different kind of teamwork, different kind of vibe, different kind of people. Chances are there are pilots out there who killed more people on one strike than any one SOF guy did in several tours. We just tend to "heroize" each differently in very different ways. So, what to do? Your education implies aviation over special warfare, but do what serves you best. If you want to fly AND prove you have big, hairy parts then join the Army and fly helicopters with an eye on joining the 160th SOAR. If you want to zip around at 20,000 feet and let a computer tell you when to shoot a guided missile at another airplane...join either the AF or Navy and work for that fighter slot. If you want to kill the enemies of America wholesale, join the AF and be a bomber pilot (or a missile launch guy..sorry I can't stand writing "missilieer"). Or, try Special Operations...you know you best.
 
A long time ago I was a reconnaissance Marine, kind of dinosaur SOF by today's standards. Later I spent a lot of time working with (strap-hanger is the word they would use) our finest snake-eaters from across the joint (and international) spectrum. To be honest, your post doesn't give the SpecOps vibe but this is an online discussion so who knows. Still, those guys are laser focused on the job...even when they were not that sure what the job was. You aren't showing that, yet.

Do you want to drive small boats with lots of guns? Do you want to be a meteorologist? Do you want to save lives or take them? @Ghost SWO got the feeling you wouldn't want rotary (and you wrote as much), but that is where the cool SOF flying takes place. Most USAF SOF jobs are what you might call "hard support," comms, weather and such attached to SF units. The Army has even more jobs like that to include JTAC, CA, and PSYOP types. So, of course, does the Navy (like the small boats mentioned above and a host of others - like JTAC).

Flying is a different thing. Different kind of teamwork, different kind of vibe, different kind of people. Chances are there are pilots out there who killed more people on one strike than any one SOF guy did in several tours. We just tend to "heroize" each differently in very different ways. So, what to do? Your education implies aviation over special warfare, but do what serves you best. If you want to fly AND prove you have big, hairy parts then join the Army and fly helicopters with an eye on joining the 160th SOAR. If you want to zip around at 20,000 feet and let a computer tell you when to shoot a guided missile at another airplane...join either the AF or Navy and work for that fighter slot. If you want to kill the enemies of America wholesale, join the AF and be a bomber pilot (or a missile launch guy..sorry I can't stand writing "missilieer"). Or, try Special Operations...you know you best.
I've already been talking to a few recruiters to start the medical and testing, and one of the first things they ask now is your medical background and any injuries you have. I was hoping to get the tests out of the way before any mention of medical history. The Navy in particular sends your medical background to MEPS before they give you the time of day. I had a broken shoulder from a ski accident in 2020 and a concussion I received from a headbutt from a guy I arrested for DV. The AF didn't seem to care, the Navy started to end the conversation pretty quickly. I can honestly say I haven't thought about anything with the Army, but right now I'm just keeping my options open until the docs decide what they want to tell me my body is capable of doing, because they apparently know best...?(doubtful). My shoulder and head are back to snuff and have been for a couple months.
 
For some reason this paragraph just screams USAF to me. If you REALLY don't want rotary, I think the USAF has a smaller percentage of rotary and a higher likelihood of fighters? The USAF also has several rates (AFSC's) that are Special Warfare; CCT, TACP, PJ, SOWT. As a side note, if you go to a Spec Ops rate, get used to being stationed on an Army base for most of your USAF career.

Coming in with a degree will get you E-3 for both branches. Barrons Study Guide people say is good, I think the study guides are fairly basic. Look up Kyle's study guide on this website, people swear by it for OAR/ASTB prep. Studying for the ASTB should prepare you for the AFOQT and vice versa.
Are you thinking enlisted USAF/USN Spec Ops jobs since you mention ASVAB? USAF PJ - 43 ASVAB minimum, PT minimums, and a myriad of medical req's.
USAF Pilot: AFOQT - 65+ PCSM (Pilot Candidate Selection Method)
USN Aviator (Pilot): ASTB - 7/7/7+ (Academic Qualifications Rating / Pilot Flight Aptitude Rating / Flight Officer Aptitude Rating)

Depends on your flight school performance compared to your peers and is needs of the Navy/USAF. You'll put whatever you want on your dream sheet. That doesn't mean it will be available or you'll get it, that goes for both branches. I think you could get rotary with either branch even if you don't write it down, so there's that.

The benefit of something like the ANG as previously mentioned is you will apply to a specific unit and their associated airframe. That way you know what you'd be flying and not have to worry about the needs of the military airframe selection which is largely out of your control.
I'm guessing the Army base stations come from the fact I would be supporting their SF teams? When I took the OAR the first time I was 6/6/6, is there anyway to work on that score for the flight aptitude part? I remember it being more like a bad computer game in a shitty setup to test a person's coordination. What about recommendations? I was told a few years ago you need strong letters of recommendation to be considered for an officer slot.

Let's say you get rotary, can you intentionally suck so bad they move you back to fixed wing?
 
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