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NAVY NWU Type 2 and Type 3 - MarPat Style Desert and Woodland for NSW

Pags

N/A
pilot
TFU just seems to be another excellent example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. It started out so well with the idea that the Navy wanted to simplify the seabag and provide sailors with a uniform they can be proud of and wear out in town. Sounds like a decent idea, who doesn't like that? And then they decided to start listening to the average 18yr old Navy Times reader about what they wanted in a uniform. Next thing you know we have blue camo that looks like we're trying to look like East Podunk County SWAT Team in their "urban" camo. So now we have NWUs. Oh, and since my current command falls within Naval District Washington, NWUs are relegated to organizational clothing so people won't be tempted to wear it to the Pentagon. Despite the fact that that was one of the original goals for a uniform that was designed in Washington! Sometime in here TFU jumped the shark and started thinking about adding MORE uniforms to the seabag (like SDKs) because people liked them. Now we're replacing camo with new camo. And their reasoning seems to be the same spurious logic that I use to convince my wife that we need a bigger TV/new car/toy: "but sweetheart, there are no parts left for the old model, so we might as well buy the new one. plus, this one has all sorts of advances in technology! our lives will be changed forever!"

TFU is also a great example of making a leadership decision based on popularity, as opposed to what is right/facts/best. If I made leadership decisions based on what the airmen had to say, the Skipper would kill me. But that's how we design our uniforms. There's no way you can convince me that NWUs and the PTU are what's best for the fleet. And like others have already said, do you want to know why Naval aquisitions are so messed up and why we've just re-started Burke production? It's because we can't even design a good PT short. You could have given the PT short problem to a couple of JOs from different communitities and said you wanted a solution in an hour. They'd come to a better conclusion in 20min and spend the remaining 40min doing real work that took TFU years and millions of dollars. If TFU had at least remained consistent with some of their original goals, the uniform change would alt least be palatable and make sense. Instead we have a uniform program that's all over the charts and does not send a consistent message.
 

Scoob

If you gotta problem, yo, I'll be part of it.
pilot
Contributor
TFU is also a great example of making a leadership decision based on popularity, as opposed to what is right/facts/best. If I made leadership decisions based on what the airmen had to say, the Skipper would kill me. But that's how we design our uniforms. There's no way you can convince me that NWUs and the PTU are what's best for the fleet.

Don't leave out the greatest piece of work to come from this process - khakis for everyone!!!! Let's see how long it takes before one of us has to explain to noobs the origin of the term "blue shirt".
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
It's because we can't even design a good PT short. You could have given the PT short problem to a couple of JOs from different communitities and said you wanted a solution in an hour. They'd come to a better conclusion in 20min and spend the remaining 40min doing real work that took TFU years and millions of dollars.
Nonono, it takes a committee of people with stars to truly understand the intricities of designing a pair of PT shorts.
 

helolumpy

Apprentice School Principal
pilot
Contributor
Supply system? What is this "supply system" you speak of?!?

I got my 2 extra desert MARPATS before deployment, and that was that.

Even at Bastion, which is a largely Marine base in Afghanistan, only stocked Army uniform items in the PX, because NEX/MCX, unlike AAFES, doesn't do wars!

I think we could deal with supply issues if we wanted to. It might be easier if the Nav didn't make up new uniforms every 5 minutes!

The supply system has nothing to do with the Exchange. When was the last time you tried to buy any flight gear in the Exchange????

Thank you for making my point by saying that they only had ACU gear there therefore USN personnel should be wearing ACU (or whatever the service sponsor is) when in theater.

The Navy is not changing uniforms every 5 minutes, the problem is that the decisions that are being made are being 'voted' on by people who read the Navy times. Tactical considerations or logisitical feasability are not as valued as highly as "they look good' to the average 18 year old respondant to the poll.

The Navy's stated position was to reduce the size of our 'sea bag' and they have not done it. They haven't reduced any of the required items, just changed them around. The new Working Uniform replaced Utilities (Dungarees) and Winter Working Blues. Then the NWU came out so you have two uniforms replacing two uniforms; net change of Zero.

For Officers we had NWU pushed onto us, but nothing 'required' has been deleted (For discussion on AWG, see other threads).

The Navy also has a prescribed PT uniform now which had problems from the very start.

So, you arguement that we are changing uniforms every 5 minutes is flawed. Until the early 2000's (Task Force Uniform), we haven't changed uniforms since the early 70's. Like the Corps we take great pride in some of the traditions that are inherent within our uniforms, so yes we are making changes to our uniforms but no more so than any other service has done in the last 15 years.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
The supply system has nothing to do with the Exchange. When was the last time you tried to buy any flight gear in the Exchange????

Thank you for making my point by saying that they only had ACU gear there therefore USN personnel should be wearing ACU (or whatever the service sponsor is) when in theater.

The Navy is not changing uniforms every 5 minutes, the problem is that the decisions that are being made are being 'voted' on by people who read the Navy times. Tactical considerations or logisitical feasability are not as valued as highly as "they look good' to the average 18 year old respondant to the poll.

The Navy's stated position was to reduce the size of our 'sea bag' and they have not done it. They haven't reduced any of the required items, just changed them around. The new Working Uniform replaced Utilities (Dungarees) and Winter Working Blues. Then the NWU came out so you have two uniforms replacing two uniforms; net change of Zero.

For Officers we had NWU pushed onto us, but nothing 'required' has been deleted (For discussion on AWG, see other threads).

The Navy also has a prescribed PT uniform now which had problems from the very start.

So, you arguement that we are changing uniforms every 5 minutes is flawed. Until the early 2000's (Task Force Uniform), we haven't changed uniforms since the early 70's. Like the Corps we take great pride in some of the traditions that are inherent within our uniforms, so yes we are making changes to our uniforms but no more so than any other service has done in the last 15 years.

My point about the supply system was precisely that--there is virtually none IRT the Navy and Marine Corps. I dare you to find a set of Marine utilities at most bases in theater, whether you go to ground supply, the PX, or the hadji-mart. If Marines, most of whom probably put more wear on their cammies than a sailor on an Army IA, can somehow get by for a tour without getting replacements, so can the sailors. Flight gear is issued by aviation supply, almost like aircraft parts. A completely different beast.

Sorry about my excess of hyperbole with the "every 5 minutes" remark. It's at least 10, maybe 15. You ditch the dungaree jeans for trousers, then ditch those for Aquaflage. The Johnny Cashes and summer whites are now out for those bastardized Marine charlies/Black-n-Tans. You sundown(?) aviation working greens, while adding SWOtacular service dress khakis. Not to mention like 10 types of SWOters, most fashionably the SWO cardigan. Then there's the PT gear issue, which is important, I suppose, since if you're only going to PT twice a year, you might as well look good!

In the Marine Corps,we went from from green to tan to green undershirts 10 years ago and it's still being talked about. We did the MARPAT thing a few years back, which touched off a digital camoflage war amongst the services, which, let's be honest, the Navy lost. 6 months before I commissioned, they dumped dress whites for officers, which happened about 1 month after I'd already purchased mine. We added a warmup suit that no one wears. That pretty much covers the major uniform changes in the Corps for the last 15 years. Now I think the uniform board exists mainly to debate the finer points of what dates to switch over from winter to summer uniforms and to pad fitrep bullets for the guys who go to the meeting.
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
"It's so simple yet...so complicated."

No, it's not complicated. We could have fielded a new aircraft fifty years ago in less time than it takes to make a g'damn decision about pt shorts now. A good decision executed expeditiously beats a perfect decision that takes years.

Of course, to top it all off, we made a TERRIBLE decision that took years.
 

bvlinas

New Member
So let me get this straight. We have an entirely new NWU that can only be worn by NSW and those supporting them? What about those that are EOD in desert theaters? Are we still sporting the tricolor desert when not supporting the teams and then the new NWU when supporting the teams? This is crazy.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Summer whites are not equivelent to SDBs. I said to get rid of Summer Whites and Winter Blues because we have (and wear most of the time) Service Khaki...get rid of chokers and SDBs for SDK.

No, I'm not out of my mind. The uniform board needs to decide whether it's more important to maintain tradition or to lighten the seabag because doing both is just blowing up the amount of uniforms everyone has to maintain by adding non-traditional alternatives. The same people that would be upset by violating tradition via getting rid of seasonal service and dress uniforms are the same people who are po'ed that E6 and below are wearing khaki shirts. The people who are po'ed that we have tons of redundant uniforms are the same people who will be po'ed when you add stuff like SDKs and the NWU but have to maintain all your other uniforms, too.

Of course it won't happen, so we'll just have to enjoy keeping around 2-3 sets of every type of uniform. When you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one.
 

HeloBubba

SH-2F AW
Contributor
Since they don't have fabric sew-on wings like our cammies, they have to wear black pin on wings (This included Jump Wings, CAB, CIB, air assault, pathfinder, etc).

This is bad gouge. There ARE sew-on equivalents for Army badges.
 

C420sailor

Former Rhino Bro
pilot
Summer whites are not equivelent to SDBs. I said to get rid of Summer Whites and Winter Blues because we have (and wear most of the time) Service Khaki...get rid of chokers and SDBs for SDK.

SDK looks like ass. It has that cool throwback look to it, but compared to chokers or SDB's it looks lame. Could you imagine people getting married in that? The Army would start looking better than us in dress, even with their 36 pieces of flair. Unsat. Ask any civilian what color uniform Sailors wear, and 99 percent of them will say white, not khaki.

I can see ditching the Johnny Cash's, simply because no one ever wears them, but Summer Whites? So we'd go on liberty in...khakis? Once again, awful. How would I get laid?

The only time I should ever wear khaki is when I fuck away a flight. It's the "khaki pain suit" as others have put it. I have no problem maintaining a set of khakis, summer whites, SDBs, chokers (it's just a jacket, really) and a few flight suits. It's not that difficult.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
SDK looks like ass. It has that cool throwback look to it, but compared to chokers or SDB's it looks lame. Could you imagine people getting married in that?
I'd be willing to bet money that if SDKs ever become authorized for wear, the majority of people who do business wearing service dress uniforms are eventually going to wear SDKs year round. It's just easier to maintain one uniform rather than two, SDBs aren't suitable for the summer and summer whites/chokers can look 'out of place' if it's not an all-Navy event. No one wears JCs or buys them if given the choice because it's just easier to have a set of khakis.

The issue isn't maintaining different uniforms, it's that you're maintaining a lot of expensive uniforms that are hardly ever worn. The last time I wore my chokers was OCS grad; I'll probably be lucky if I wear them once more before my contract is up. That's not exactly a good use of $150. But if there were one dress uniform and I combined the times I've had to wear SDBs in there so far, the investment isn't as bad. And you're sure making a big fuss about wearing summer whites to "get laid," since most of the studs I know say the uniform collects dust along with their chokers and SDBs. Besides, what are you doing out in town in your uniform?

As for weddings: Mess dress.

I realize that I joined with the knowledge of what Navy uniforms entailed, but my point is that if the Navy is going to spend the time to "redo" our uniforms, they should do it in a way that makes it easier and cheaper for Sailors and Officers to maintain them. If you want to stick to tradition, that's fine, but then why bother with this whole "task force uniform" business?

The only time I should ever wear khaki is when I fuck away a flight. It's the "khaki pain suit" as others have put it.
There are other communities beyond aviation, and there might be a shore duty in your future where you wear khakis everyday.
 

C420sailor

Former Rhino Bro
pilot
Mess Dress? Now THAT is a uniform with a horrible return on investment. I'd buy it and wear it for a wedding because it looks pretty shit hot, but I wouldn't use that as an argument against SDB/Choker. A choker jacket is a little over $100 from the NEX and you have all of the other required parts from your Summer Whites. Mess Dress is an expensive uniform with almost nothing in common with others.
 
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