Navy flying Warrant O program

[ChuckMK23]

Goodbye HC-11, Hello HSC-21

San Diego, Calif. (Apr. 8, 2005) - Sailors previously assigned to Helicopter Combat Support Squadron Eleven (HC-11), sign the old HC-11 squadron crest after being recommissioned as the “Blackjacks” of Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron Two One (HSC-21). The “Blackjacks” fly the MH-60S Seahawk and the UH-3H Sea King helicopters.

 

[A4sForever]

I presume this is just for rotary wing crewmen. Surely your P-3 FEs and IFTs aren't going to become AWs as well.

Brett

Yeah, Brett, for my part I was referencing all helo aircrew required to become AW's ONLY reported to me in my conversation today with a retired CPO helo-guy.

His theory on Warrants flying helo's as pilots was -- it ain't gonna' happen. Again, I am just a messenger. I don't know, but I think some head-fake at a resurrection of something like the old NAP program would not be a BAD thing, just different in Naval Aviation culture over the past 35 years. And possibly a lot more cost effective, seat by seat.

My CPO (ret) thought the problems would arise aboard ship with "organizational" questions --- he was referring to rank structure. So when has it ever been any different .... ???

 

[Cyclic]

I presume this is just for rotary wing crewmen. Surely your P-3 FEs and IFTs aren't going to become AWs as well.

Brett

Yes, all Helo NAC's....don't even know what FE's and IFT's are.

 

[Cyclic]

San Diego, Calif. (Apr. 8, 2005) - Sailors previously assigned to Helicopter Combat Support Squadron Eleven (HC-11), sign the old HC-11 squadron crest after being recommissioned as the “Blackjacks” of Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron Two One (HSC-21). The “Blackjacks” fly the MH-60S Seahawk and the UH-3H Sea King helicopters.

Bad juju, HSC-21 does not have H-3's anymore, only Sea Kings in NASNI are in HC-85....sounds like a Navy Times article.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Official Department of the Navy Website www.Navy.mil

See the pictures area

 

[Sandwichwarrior]

I presume this is just for rotary wing crewmen. Surely your P-3 FEs and IFTs aren't going to become AWs as well.

Brett

I've seen the Navadmin brief posted in the HSL-41 training building. It applies to ALL enlisted aircrew. I'm lookin for a online copy to link to, but till then here are the highlights.

"AW" will no longer refer to the rate of "Aviation Weapons System Operator" instead it will refer to the new rate of "Enlisted Aircrewman".

The aircrewman rate will be broken into several subrates much like the AB and AM rates.

"AWA" Acoustic Sensors/ASW Operator
"AWN" Non-Acousic Sensor Operator
"AWF" Flight Engineer/Reel Operator
"AWT" Inflight Technician/Comms Specialist
"AW_" Loadmaster (im sorry but i'm not sure what this one's being called)

"AWH" Helicopter Crewman
or...
"AWS" H60 Sierra Crewman
"AWR" H60 Romeo Crewman
(Nature of the Helicopter rate is still being discussed)

As Naval Aircrewman is becoming a rate NAC wings may become a warfare designation awarded upon reaching the level of senior crewman.

 

[Brett327]

I've seen the Navadmin brief posted in the HSL-41 training building. It applies to ALL enlisted aircrew. I'm lookin for a online copy to link to, but till then here are the highlights.

"AW" will no longer refer to the rate of "Aviation Weapons System Operator" instead it will refer to the new rate of "Enlisted Aircrewman".

The aircrewman rate will be broken into several subrates much like the AB and AM rates.

"AWA" Acoustic Sensors/ASW Operator
"AWN" Non-Acousic Sensor Operator
"AWF" Flight Engineer/Reel Operator
"AWT" Inflight Technician/Comms Specialist
"AW_" Loadmaster (im sorry but i'm not sure what this one's being called)

"AWH" Helicopter Crewman
or...
"AWS" H60 Sierra Crewman
"AWR" H60 Romeo Crewman
(Nature of the Helicopter rate is still being discussed)

As Naval Aircrewman is becoming a rate NAC wings may become a warfare designation awarded upon reaching the level of senior crewman.

Wow, I'm surprised that they're doing that. Not surprisingly, that has potential to be a HUGE CLUSTER FVCK in the VP community. Any VP folks have any skinny on this one? Does this mean that the IFTs or AWTs are going to work in 210, or will they be in the AW shop with the rest of the slackers. Seems like it would be a huge mistake to take all the maintenance rate aircrew out of the Maintenance Dept. If that is not the intent, then why bother with the change in the first place? I guess I'm just not seeing the utility of the change.

Brett

 

[kmac]

Doesn't this mean then that the Aircrew would not be trained as maintainers first? How the heck will Cods operate then? Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly. What good is an AW who doesn't get training on fixing the aircraft?

 

[ghost]

My aircrew were never trained as maintainers. A few might be qualified as planes captains (good for cross countries) but that is about it. The two jobs I need them to do in the back is be a sensor operator and a rescue swimmer. They have more than enough to keep on top of when they learn those tow skill sets. The jobs my AWs do are completely unrelated to what a NAC does in C-2,E-6 or other aircraft.

ghost

 

[Brett327]

My aircrew were never trained as maintainers. A few might be qualified as planes captains (good for cross countries) but that is about it. The two jobs I need them to do in the back is be a sensor operator and a rescue swimmer. They have more than enough to keep on top of when they learn those tow skill sets. The jobs my AWs do are completely unrelated to what a NAC does in C-2,E-6 or other aircraft.

ghost

Let's not miss the point of my post. It obviously doesn't apply to LAMPS or other helo platforms. Let's try to stay on target.

Brett

 

[kmac]

True but I have also heard that ALL aircrewmen will be AWs. That means different training pipeline and therefore they would be worth very little fresh out of AC school. Any thoughts? Our aircrewman fix the birds quite a bit and are a big part of maintenance when not flying.

 

[Sandwichwarrior]

Doesn't this mean then that the Aircrew would not be trained as maintainers first? How the heck will Cods operate then? Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly. What good is an AW who doesn't get training on fixing the aircraft?

Basically the AW rate as it currently exists is being disestablished. The new rate is going to have new crewman going going through a "core" A School before going to a "strand" or C School for their respective subrates, The idea (as i understand it) is that new crewman will get a greater portion of thier traing in A and C school so that they arrive at the FRS basically qualified for thier position. In theory this cuts back on the general training the FRS has to do allowing them to focus on "platform specific" material.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Flying Midshipmen

Lets not forget the Mids who were designated Naval Aviators without receiveing a commision - Korean War..

The program was designed to provide the Navy with qualified pilots in the post-World War II period following the loss of a large segment of experienced naval aviators returning to civilian life. For those who joined the program, it offered to pay for two years of college and training as a naval aviator in exchange for a service obligation. Personnel completing their flight training and designated a naval aviator were not automatically commissioned at the same time. They remained as aviation midshipman and were ordered to the fleet, serving a pilots but not as a commissioned officer. After a period of service in the fleet these "flying midshipmen" usually received their commission. The program was in effect between 1946 and 1950.

 

[snoopusmaximus]

Just wondering, but why is the Navy doing this (if it is); isn't the Navy reducing its size?

This is a test. It is only a test. Had this been a real emergency you would have seen a Master Caution, heard numerous grinding sounds (real and imagined), smelled something other than your 3P and TACCO and lost your seat cushion.

 

[BigIron]

I am going to write up to NPC tomorrow and figure out was is going on. I have a bunch of troops interested now....especially after NHA. I'll post any info/gouge I find out.