Navy flying Warrant O program

[Brett327]

O4 LDO was OPSO I believe (different squadron).... but you are right, they won't have the chance for command, do the DH tour, and the off to OIC a TSC or something. That is where he went next if I recall correctly.

Curious, why waste a kingmaker DH job in a community that already has too many Os in a squadron? Surely all the O-4s in your command weren't that fvcked up.

Brett

 

[zab1001]

My TACCO was a prior SS3 with 20 plus years in...

Rick Poole?

as far as helo CWOs...I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[ocjams]

ANSWER: maybe to save $$$$$$$$$$$$$ !?!?! why pay for or educate (4+ years?) an officer when an enlisted rate or Warrant can do a job just as well?

Hey A4s, I understand that mentality, but do you know of any Warrant Officers in the Navy that are younger than the usual flight training cutoff of 31 yrs old? I think Warrant Officers might not be as fiscally efficient as you think since they are much older and very close to retirement. What guarantees would there be to retain these pilots if they can retire a few years after they complete their training? Just a thought besides, maybe I'm a little partial to JO's having the student pilot market cornered.

 

[A4sForever]

Hey A4s, I understand that mentality, but do you know of any Warrant Officers in the Navy that are younger than the usual flight training cutoff of 31 yrs old? I think Warrant Officers might not be as fiscally efficient as you think since they are much older and very close to retirement. What guarantees would there be to retain these pilots if they can retire a few years after they complete their training? Just a thought besides, maybe I'm a little partial to JO's having the student pilot market cornered.

What you say is possibly correct (and this is all just speculation at this point), but I don't think the Navy is going to offer a flying seat to the crusty, old, nearing retirement, experienced "Gunner", or any such "senior" Warrants, do you?? I.e., probably not the WO/CWO type that I think you are referencing --- more likely any Navy "Flying Warrants" would mirror the Army program. Young guys.

Speculation ....who really does know at this point? I'd like to see NAPs/Flying Warrants come back. Good discussion ....

 

[bunk22]

If your guy is, in fact, the last of the breed, then some of the research on a book I'm doing is going to have to take a detour. I have been interviewing a retired CAPT, former NAP -- the only one to become an ACE -- and he confirmed my information as well.[/b]

Are you sure there was only one NAP ace? Maybe I'm mistaken but I though there was more than one, such as warrant officer Donald Runyon who scored 8 victories (7 confirmed through John B. Lundstrom's book The First Team) as a NAP then 3 more as a commissioned officer.

 

[A4sForever]

Are you sure there was only one NAP ace? Maybe I'm mistaken but I though there was more than one, such warrant officer Donald Runyon who scored 8 victories (7 confirmed through John B. Lundstrom's book The First Team) as a NAP then 3 more as a commissioned officer.

Yeah, right, thanks for the head's up. I was referencing the one who got all 5 as an enlisted NAP --- no commisioned officer kills, if we can say that here . Lundstrom is a great guy -- I am corresponding/telephoning with him on the book I'm doing -- he's very helpful. He is still the "curator" at the museum in Milwaulkee --- very knowledgeable.

(edit: not enough smiles ... :icon_mi_1 )

 

[webmaster]

Rick Poole?

as far as helo CWOs...I'll believe it when I see it.

Yes, the man himself... great guy.

 

[zab1001]

I got WRECKED with him in the casino in Puerto Rico when we were in the RAG. What a great guy. 36 hours of pure stupidity.

um, and uh, the helo thing...something...

 

[ChuckMK23]

Does anyone have a web link that gives more detail on this subject?

 

[Brett327]

I got WRECKED with him in the casino in Puerto Rico when we were in the RAG. What a great guy. 36 hours of pure stupidity.

um, and uh, the helo thing...something...

Ahhh, the Conquistador, yes? Good times.

Brett

 

[A4sForever]

Does anyone have a web link that gives more detail on this subject?

Chuckster:

I talked to a buddy today who is a retired CPO (recent) about this --- he spent his whole career in helos everywhere ashore and afloat as a swimmer, crew chief, etc. etc. -- didn't like the new "everyone AW concept" --- he says it will never happen -- his opinion. He thought the biggest "organizational problem" would be aboard ship ......

Just one man's opinion who is in the community and "connected" with a lot of active duty E-MEN and offered F.Y.I .

 

[Cyclic]

Chuckster:

I talked to a buddy today who is a retired CPO (recent) about this --- he spent his whole career in helos everywhere ashore and afloat as a swimmer, crew chief, etc. etc. -- didn't like the new "everyone AW concept" --- he says it will never happen -- his opinion. He thought the biggest "organizational problem" would be aboard ship ......

Just one man's opinion who is in the community and "connected" with a lot of active duty E-MEN and offered F.Y.I .

Well you can tell him that it's a done deal, by next FY every NAC will be an AW, they either change rate to AW or turn in their wings to fix aircraft as ground pounders. The NEOCS package for "A" School is about to be signed, the result will be a new single HSC (HS/HC merge) and HM track for AW's. It's not a problem, HS and HSL have been doing it for more than 25 years.

 

[A4sForever]

Well you can tell him that it's a done deal, by next FY every NAC will be an AW, they either change rate to AW or turn in their wings to fix aircraft as ground pounders. The NEOCS package for "A" School is about to be signed, the result will be a new single HSC (HS/HC merge) and HM track for AW's. It's not a problem, HS and HSL have been doing it for more than 25 years.

Right, and thanks ... maybe I was not too clear. He said "NO", not gonna happen--- to Warrants flying in the Navy --- not "everyone an AW" ..... that was one of the reasons he said he was not in the NAV anymore ...

 

[ChuckMK23]

Chuckster:

I talked to a buddy today who is a retired CPO (recent) about this --- he spent his whole career in helos everywhere ashore and afloat as a swimmer, crew chief, etc. etc. -- didn't like the new "everyone AW concept" --- he says it will never happen -- his opinion. He thought the biggest "organizational problem" would be aboard ship ......

Just one man's opinion who is in the community and "connected" with a lot of active duty E-MEN and offered F.Y.I .

The Navy has gone through the mechanics of looking at this every which way I have lost count. The whole subject was addressed in 90-92 with the evlolution of the NTH (New Training Helicopter) for the Army. With the aircraft program came renewed interest in undergraduate helo training consolidation - and from that officer accession into helo training. Once again everyone concluded The Nav was doing something right and left well alone.

Interesting sidenote - the Army selected the TH-67 - a Bell 206 highly similar to the TH-57. When they started cracking skid tubes on practice full autos and asked why we didn't have the same problem - we said we already learned 20 years ago that the safety margin was max 60 gal of gas and 3000' DA!! The Army copied our SOP exactly - and they stopped breaking skid tubes.

so....to echo the words of someone far more eloquent than me...

The more things change, the more they remain the same...

 

[Brett327]

Well you can tell him that it's a done deal, by next FY every NAC will be an AW, they either change rate to AW or turn in their wings to fix aircraft as ground pounders. The NEOCS package for "A" School is about to be signed, the result will be a new single HSC (HS/HC merge) and HM track for AW's. It's not a problem, HS and HSL have been doing it for more than 25 years.

I presume this is just for rotary wing crewmen. Surely your P-3 FEs and IFTs aren't going to become AWs as well.

Brett