MV-22 in Afghanistan

[phrogdriver]

Here's to all those doubters who kept asking why the Osprey wasn't in Afghanistan.

I think this will be a very good thing. I only wish I could've stayed there after the initial fly-in.

Take that, g2mil.com, red-ribbon panel, Time magazine, et al!

 

[ArkhamAsylum]

Thanks for posting that. -1 to the naysayers out there.

 

[Birdog8585]

So since you guys handed over your birds from the MEU, are they not going to have the belly gun kit? Or are they going to install them in country?

BTW the T-34 Sim instructors swear by the V-22 bash over at G2mil.

 

[HeyJoe]

Here's to all those doubters who kept asking why the Osprey wasn't in Afghanistan.

I think this will be a very good thing. I only wish I could've stayed there after the initial fly-in.

Take that, g2mil.com, red-ribbon panel, Time magazine, et al!

Especially the g2mil.com and the supposed "Red-Ribbon Panel" created by the retired USAF Jolly Green Driver/V-22 Hater who fanned the flames of hate for over a decade. He claims to have over a hundred members in his Red Ribbon Panel all decrying V-22, but his name is only one that shows up on the numerous letters, studies and articles he has authored.

 

[desertoasis]

If I was ever to switch services and join the Marines, I'd wanna fly that bird. It looks like so much fun.

I realized that I originally wrote blue-green, which is Navy to Army....and I would never do that.

 

[phrogdriver]

So since you guys handed over your birds from the MEU, are they not going to have the belly gun kit? Or are they going to install them in country?

BTW the T-34 Sim instructors swear by the V-22 bash over at G2mil.

G2.mil is about as credible as the Flat-Earth Society.

The sim instructors think military innvoation stopped sometime around the Tet Offensive.

 

[Beans]

Some sim instructors aren't really proponents of concepts based on... "thinking."

Actual comments from sim instructors heard by Beans pre-wings.
(After I call "clear right" prior to rotor engagement in a '57 CPT) "Why would you call 'clear right' there? It's not written in the NATOPS, so we're not going to do that"

(Discussing Land ASAP situations in later '57 sims) "So you're on your cross country and you get a chip light that won't clear. Are you going to just land in the nearest random farmer's field?" Me: "Absolutely, we hear about that happening all the time" IP: "No you're not. You're not qualified to judge whether or not that field is a safe landing surface." At this point I stopped listening to whatever he said.

 

[HeyJoe]

G2.mil is about as credible as the Flat-Earth Society.

The sim instructors think military innvoation stopped sometime around the Tet Offensive.

LOL, but so true. +2 for those insights.

To my mind, something else is going on as well with the so-called "Red Ribbon Panel" and its solitary spokeman/coordinator. There seems to be a parallel between COL Harry P Dunn's fanatic pursuit of all things Osprey and "Dr" Beak Atkinson's obsession with "New Totalitarians" at the Naval Academy (as well as women in combat) as well CAPT John Schick who founded Citizens Concerned Against Jet Noise (CCAJN) in Oceana area. All of them are outspoken and never seem to be satisfied with whatever response they get in response to their causes.

 

[scoolbubba]

(Discussing Land ASAP situations in later '57 sims) "So you're on your cross country and you get a chip light that won't clear. Are you going to just land in the nearest random farmer's field?" Me: "Absolutely, we hear about that happening all the time" IP: "No you're not. You're not qualified to judge whether or not that field is a safe landing surface." At this point I stopped listening to whatever he said.

I'd have to argue that the little red light that says CHIP on it qualified you to make that judgment. It's nice to have actual IPs in the sim with me, finally.

 

[Uncle Fester]

All of them are outspoken and never seem to be satisfied with whatever response they get in response to their causes.

Pretty much the definition of 'fanatic', right? But those you named are good examples of why having a rank or "Dr" in front of your name doesn't mean you're not full of shit.

I think the Osprey haters have been OBE, though. It was one thing when it was still in OT&E, but the transition is now well underway, planes are flying in both combat theaters. It's a done deal...the Devil's Whirlybird is here to stay. Fulminating about whether it should have been bought in the first place now seems like nothing more than academic masturbation.

The mainstream media keeps reporting these stories because they love the spectacle of military officers bickering among themselves, not because the reporters necessarily know or give a shit about the subject. Sorta like how they keep reporting on whether Brad and Angelina are fighting.

 

[phrogdriver]

Even on Military.com (or its brother, defensetech.org), the V-22 haters are completely unhinged. They will not concede on anything. If they're talking about how unmanueverable the V-22 is and you tell them the NATOPS manuevering limits are actually greater than those of the aircraft it's replacing, they'll either not believe you because some blogger said different, or just start on another line of attack.

If someone's arguing with me and introduces a new fact, I'm at least willing to entertain modifying my position. These guys don't even think about it. For example, I think the V-22's pricetag is indeed very high, but I think the unique capability justifies it. The V-22 could rescue their dog and they still bitch about something.

 

[Jim123]

If they're talking about how unmanueverable the V-22 is

Let me take a wild guess... 800 feet per minute/40 knots?

(I had one of my friends cite that in a wardroom discussion on an H-60 once... my reply/interruption started out "Dude, time out for a second, let's go back to aero 101 and start from there.")

 

[ArkhamAsylum]

I recently read an anti-V-22 article, and one of its focal points was that the V-22 squadron ISO OIF only averaged something like 3.6 pax and 800 lbs cargo per sortie. To the innocent bystander, these sound like dismal numbers that justify its uselessness. To the quasi-educated bystander that knows a little bit about the way squadrons are tasked, this sounds like VIP movements (which was one of the squadron's primary missions at the time). Just another example of the media preying on the general ignorance of its audience.

 

[slug]

the V-22 squadron ISO OIF only averaged something like 3.6 pax and 800 lbs cargo per sortie. To the innocent bystander, these sound like dismal numbers

Those are pretty dismal numbers for a "cargo" aircraft.

Those are pretty dismal numbers for an H-60, although I don't think I ever saw an H-60 that empty in country.

 

[phrogdriver]

I recently read an anti-V-22 article, and one of its focal points was that the V-22 squadron ISO OIF only averaged something like 3.6 pax and 800 lbs cargo per sortie. To the innocent bystander, these sound like dismal numbers that justify its uselessness. To the quasi-educated bystander that knows a little bit about the way squadrons are tasked, this sounds like VIP movements (which was one of the squadron's primary missions at the time). Just another example of the media preying on the general ignorance of its audience.

One, they take whatever the frags are. They frag a C-5 to take a seabag and 1 guy, that's what it does.

Two, were those hours average over total sorties or just over sorties with frags associated with them? If they count FCFs and training flights, it will drive the average way down.

Three, that data is derived from NAVFLIR inputs, which probably 3 out of 4 pilots forget to enter when doing their paperwork.