military "culture"

[lunar]

i am a 22 year old honors student. i am studying in japan this year and will be in korea for the next to learn korean. i have been considering the navy since this past january, and have spoken with a recruiter. it was not a most encouraging discourse. i should mention that this is taken from the BDCP route.

basically the convo flowed along the lines that the navy (or at least he) doesn't care diddly-hoo whether i can speak fluent jap (and hopefully korean) and won't consider that in my app, regardless of community. something i was particularly interested in besides flying was the foreign liaison officier position, but that requires at least one tour prior to consideration. first question is, is this really the case? or will the navy choose to excercise my skills?

the second issue i am weary of is the military life-style... more specificaly, the culture. travel is something i need to do in life. i get bored real fast being in the same place for more than a few years. so i figured the navy deal is probably well suited for me. and as i'm sure people in this forum must be aware of, there is an international stigma to some degree in being american military in many parts of the world. my problem is, when i am in tokyo, and i see a bunch of navy guys up in roppongi (the foreign club district) dressed like they're going square dancing (this is tokyo, not dallas) and their primarily goal - to be blunt - is local *****.... well, that doesn't make a good impression on me to put it modestly. i love travel, but i love it for the opportunity to meet people, to learn languages, and live other ways of life. when i cross roads with military who have been in japan or germany or elsewhere abroad for up to several years, and all they know off base are some local expat joints and tourist sites, and hardly any language skills.... it really makes me consider if the military is the right option for me.

i see two sides to it. on the one, it's a very respectable profession with untold potential and rewards. on the other, there seems be a lot of surplus ego in a lot people i run across who seem completely closed off to anything the military doesn't support. in other words, this idea that america is the best. i obviously agree america has the most powerful military in the world... and trust me, there are a lot of quirks about a lot of other places that bugger me... but that doesn't make them "lower". i do not think japan is "lower" because it's bureaucracy is incompetent (actually that one is probably true of most countries) or the japanese have this mentality that insullation is not in homes because it is somehow /bad/ in summer, anymore than i see america as being "lower" for a culture of people screaming for their right to bear arms. (don't misunderstand me - i've been in beijing and other places as well, and there are many places i would rather not live than the states, just as there are places i feel more comfortable in - tho i've yet to find any place i love more than nyc). they are both places with lots of people and lots of ideas, and lots of stupid people. that's way the world is. the problem is when stupid acquire too much power and various methods of destruction.

i don't know. perhaps it's good for the military to have lots of people who carry the attitude that it is the most important thing in the world. but while i love flying and travel, i want to do so with people i can relate to and really have the opportunity to learn the languages and cultures of places i am living in. am i just coming across the wrong people in the military, or will i always feel out of place? i will say that should i commit, i would be unwavering, and perform to my best and uphold my duties, just as i would in any other profession. but while i am very happy because of the opportunities that america has afforded me, i never see myself as "american." i am a person just like everyone else. sorry for the long diatribe here, but this is a serious decision for not only myself, but the navy as well. i have an offer right now for a pilot slot on bdcp. based on how i sound here, can you guys give me some idea of whether i'd be happy in the service?

 

[jaerose]

First, don't ever let a recruiter discourage you from what you want to do...their job is to fill quotas, so you'll have to be VERY assertive in getting what you want (BDCP is an awesome program). Second, do not judge the entire Naval Community based solely upon the few 'cowboys lookin' for action' you saw in Tokyo (I doubt that you are) because you can find people in any line of work that you probably wouldn't associate with outside of the workplace. It takes all kinds of people to make a business work and the Navy is just that...a business. Third, there are many opportunities to use your skills in the Navy. If you want to fly...do that, then apply for jobs/assignments that allow you to use them. Also, you can go to grad. school and refine your skills, then get a different job. Just because you start as something doesn't mean you cannot progress, or move to a different community during your career. It really comes down to whether you decide to exercise your skills, or not (IMHO). Just decide what you want to do and shoot for it...if your current recruiter is less than helpful, then get another one until you feel like they're helping you. They fill quotas, but they're also supposed to help you get what you want out of the Navy, while the Navy gets what it wants out of you. It's got to be a symbiotic relationship between you and the Navy...otherwise you'll be miserable. Good luck.

JR

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
--Edmund Burke

 

[Fly Navy]

"anymore than i see america as being "lower" for a culture of people screaming for their right to bear arms."

You've been in Japan way too long if you think this is a problem.

Fly Navy
ENS USNR

 

[lunar]

i hope when you say the gun issue in the states is not a problem, it's because i miscommunicated something in posting. of course, i am not trying to portray all americans as clamoring for their guns... but there are enough that it's something i'm very uncomfortable with. outside the states, there are very few developed countries where you can just buy a gun. and even those where you can, such as oz, you have to have legit reason for needing one. anyway, i don't want to derail this thread into an arms debate. if you think guns are good, that's your opinion. right now my thoughts pertain to whether the navy is something i want to do, and something i'll be happy with. i still want to go to grad school. jaerose, right now i'm planning on attending columbia after graduation in 2.5 years, but if i take the bdcp offer, the recruiter said i need to make my initial commitment first. that means i'll be over 30... i don't like that. you said i can go to grad school; can i go to columbia or another uni in the ny metro if i'm in the navy?

also, someone mentioned in another thread that you can do exchange programs, or even make a career switch to oz. oz-land is a place i'm quite fond of, and if my personal (read: family) situ warranted it, is it possible i could make the switch before my initial commitment (8 years for pilot) had expired?

obviously, i'm unsure of my future at this point, and the navy is a long commitment. i need to make sure it's the right one. i appreciate the advice.

 

[submariner8]

Lunar,

I'm not trying to sway you from a career in the Navy, but based on what you seem to want out of life, I was wondering if you have considered a career as a Foreign Service Officer (FSO) for the Department of State. Here is a webpage to give you some info: http://www.careers.state.gov/officer/

These positions allow you to utilize your language skills, travel to foreign countries, and serve your country, while not necesarily committing for a long period of time. As far a being able to attend grad school, I don't think they will pay for it, but I'm not sure about that. It sounds like you want to go to grad school first anyway, and if that is the case, I'm not sure that you are going to be able to do that in the Navy and get them to pay for it.
Good luck...

 

[Jold]

Hmm. The Navy is always interested in Honor students. I assume your major is not English.

Some friendly advice.

If you, at this point, are weary of the military, consider it no more. Just take the freedoms and benefits a lot of brave men and women give to you and run with it.

Try not to use racial epithets in your dialog. "Jap" while once an accepted epithet, most of us now consider it offensive.

While I cannot speak for everyone on the forum, a large number of us heed the advice of JFK.

" ... ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU; RATHER ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR OUNTRY ... "

Good Luck.

 

[ltrain]

Along the lines of Lunar's questions, I have one. Are any of you at all bothered by the Iraq situation? I find it troubling that the US went ahead and invaded without the support of the UN. I also am troubled by the fact that the commander in chief seemed to make up reasons for the invasion (WMD, uranium from Nigeria, et). I'm troubled by the fact that there seems to be no real plan for getting troops out of Iraq (or Afghanastan). Finally, I'm troubled that the friends of the commander in chief seem to be the only people profiting by the invasion of Iraq (in terms of divvying up Iraq's oil and rebuilding contracts). I have friends who used to be officers in the Navy who have these same concerns. So I'm curious how those about to join up feel about these issues, as well.

 

[lunar]

Actually, i did once consider journalism during my freshman days... but my major is now international relations, with emphasis on asian studies.

as for my exercise of the term "jap," i apologize if i did offend anyone. different places assign different interpretations of language, and i have been out of the states for quite some time. jap is commonly used over here to refer to the japanese language - not people - when speaking in english... by japanese as well as expats.

submariner - thanks for the direction on the fso. i'll follow up on that. i actually discussed the navy parallel with my recruiter but he basically said it's not happening as far as my first job goes.

i am weary of the navy... and i do get the impression that people who are weary of it should not be signing on. but i would be weary of any commitment for 8 years. i don't know about some of you guys, but 8 years is a loooooong time for someone that's 22 and still trying to find his niche in life. and this is why i'm here now.

 

[Meridiani]

Lunar,

From the information you've provided us, I personally do not believe that the Navy would be a good choice for you at this point in your life. If you are wary (not weary) of making an eight year committment to serve the U.S., then decline the BDCP slot. I will point out that it is possible to get a master's degree while you are serving, but it will have to wait until you have completed your flight training and your first sea tour. Bear in mind that if you change your mind at a later date, and decide that you do wish to serve your country in the Navy, that declining a BDCP slot will have a negative impact on your future OCS application.

____________
Stacy
____________

 

[Fly Navy]

Yay everybody! We've been infected with Liberals!

(Yes, I'm being childish, and I don't care).

Fly Navy
ENS USNR

 

[Goofytallguy]

I think you should consider the duties not of just a pilot or mechanic, but the underlying principles of Naval officers. If you don't see yourself as an 'American,' then why would you take an oath to support and defend America's Constitution? Isn't one of the requirements to become a Naval officer unquestionable loyalty to the United States? Not that officers can't privately question and discuss our country's actions in Iraq or elsewhere; but I have to wonder, if we went to war with a country that you had a personal affinity for, it sounds like your feelings are strong enough that your military duty as an officer might be compromised by your love of the other people and their culture.

I'm also not what most people would consider a typical sailor, I don't drink, smoke, go out clubbing to meet women, (not a stereotype, I just imagine that most men in the navy do at least one of those things) and most of the time I'd rather just be home reading and learning something new. But, I undoubtedly love the Navy for what it is, and I know I'm going to be extremely happy with my decision. (Leaving for boot camp in a week with a six year commitment) I think anyone can be successful in the military, so long as they have the right attitude, and they are willing to follow orders from any 'stupid' people that happen to be higher in rank than they are. So, I think the Navy probably isn't the best choice for you, at least until you have fewer doubts about it all.

 

[Fly Navy]

Hey Goofy, you said 6 year enlistment. Nuke?

Fly Navy
ENS USNR

 

[Meridiani]

Goofytallguy makes some good points. In my mind, political affiliation has very little to do with one's suitability for military service, although there is a pronounced tendency to the political right among many service members. However, whether you are a Democrat or a Republican, a liberal or a conservative, if you are unwilling or unable to take the Code of Conduct to heart, you will not be suited to military service. The sixth part of the Code of Conduct says "I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America." If those are just words to you, and not a deeply held conviction, than do NOT under ANY circumstances, join the Navy.

As always, this is just my $0.02 (and probably worth even less!).

 

[Jold]

Agreed. Political beliefs have no bearing and i would defend to my death someone's right to their beliefs.

i consider myself a Liberal (Fiscal conservative) and am a Democrat. But i did not enter the Navy five years ago because i felt i could not serve under a Command in Chief that was a draft dodger and received a Pardon for his crimes by then President Jimmy Carter. And a vice President that gored the military when he said "... the military is a facist organization ... ". For me, my chracter was more important.

And now, would like to do my part. Iraq, in the final analyses, we can choose to fight the terrorists at home or where they live. It is our choice.

 

[Fly Navy]

Let me explain my comment. I don't agree with some of the beliefs you outlined, they're leftist and I believe them to be wrong. But that doesn't matter at all, that's not going to preclude you from the military, but on a note, you'll find that military are much more "right" oriented than "left" oriented. If you can live with that, then that's good on you. However, like the other's are saying, if you can't identify yourself as an AMERICAN and you won't give yourself to that idea, then you should NOT be joinging the military. Get your thoughts sorted out and then approach the decision again.

Fly Navy
ENS USNR