Midshipman Rank

[BOMBSonHAWKEYES]

MIDship? Like between where the enlisted used to stay on the front of the ship and the officers on the back end? Is anymore explination required?

 

[The Chief]

I'd be kind of interested to hear what some of the more senior folks have to say about this one....

A Midshipman ranks between Chief Warrant Officer and Ensign (2nd LT).

Any day, any time they get my salute, excepting when on the Yard in Annapolis.

 

[snake020]

Ok, as I'm reading this I am seeing the Navy is more trusting of its upperclass Midshipmen a lot more than the air farce with its senior cadets... someone answer me this - are Midshipmen (excluding Academy) subject to UCMJ at all?

 

[WY518]

Ok, as I'm reading this I am seeing the Navy is more trusting of its upperclass Midshipmen a lot more than the air farce with its senior cadets... someone answer me this - are Midshipmen (excluding Academy) subject to UCMJ at all?

When I was in college our unit told us we were only subject to the UCMJ while on orders for the summer cruises.

 

[Jay]

In my eyes you're a college student along for the ride, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[HighDimension]

Ok, as I'm reading this I am seeing the Navy is more trusting of its upperclass Midshipmen a lot more than the air farce with its senior cadets... someone answer me this - are Midshipmen (excluding Academy) subject to UCMJ at all?

While on Summer Training ROTC MIDN are subject to UCMJ. At all other times we are civilians that wear a uniform and play Navy/USMC. Being in ROTC can't be considered the equivalent of being "in the Navy/USMC" IMHO. I would say the only real difference between us and civilians are that we wear uniforms once a week and are held to a higher standard academically/morally.

 

[The Chief]

When I was in college our unit told us we were only subject to the UCMJ while on orders for the summer cruises.

Sigh ... ??

I quote from the UCMJ

802. ART. 2. PERSONS SUBJECT TO THIS CHAPTER
(a) The following persons are subject to this chapter:
(1) Members of a regular component ...
(2) Cadets, aviation cadets, and midshipman.


Are your a Cadet? aviation cadet or Mishipman? Then clearly your are subject to the UCMJ.

Pssst. So am I, although I retired in 1973, still subject to the "code".

 

[HighDimension]

Sigh ... ??

I quote from the UCMJ

802. ART. 2. PERSONS SUBJECT TO THIS CHAPTER
(a) The following persons are subject to this chapter:
(1) Members of a regular component ...
(2) Cadets, aviation cadets, and midshipman.


Are your a Cadet? aviation cadet or Mishipman? Then clearly your are subject to the UCMJ.

Pssst. So am I, although I retired in 1973, still subject to the "code".

Chief,

Unless we are on summer cruise there is no way that we can be prosecuted under the UCMJ. That is exclusively for USNA midshipmen, not us ROTC Warriors.

-HD


Edit: Look in Article 1

801. ART. 1. DEFINITIONS.

In this chapter.

(1) "Judge Advocate General" means, severally, the Judge Advocates General of the Army, Navy, and Air Force and, except when the Coast guard is operating as a service in the Navy, the General Counsel of the Department of Transportation.

....

(7) "Midshipman" means a midshipman of the United States Naval Academy and any other midshipman on active duty in the naval service.

 

[A4sForever]

I dunno, boys ... I think the Chief is right .... when we raised our right hand and swore our Oath on acceptance as MIDN ... we were also sworn in as a Seaman Deuce ... and we were so discharged when we commissioned four years later. I have my SN discharge certificate framed in the "I love me" room ....

Soooooooo .... my understanding was (in fact, they told us) that we were under potential military "jurisdiction" thruout the entire 4 years of NROTC --- Regular scholarship program; don't know about the 2-year "contract" program --- and in fact, had we been disenrolled --- that's where we would have gone, i.e., to the Fleet as a Seaman Deuce.

And some did ....

 

[navy09]

Soooooooo .... my understanding was (in fact, they told us) that we were under potential military "jurisdiction" thruout the entire 4 years of NROTC ---

Not sure what you mean by "potential military 'jurisdiction'"...if you mean to say that the UCMJ applies to NROTC Mids...this is no longer the case, HD got it on the money. UCMJ applies to ACTIVE DUTY MIDN...that's USNA all the time, and ROTC when on summer cruise (or whenever specified).

 

[greysword]

I can't find anything in Title 10 that states Midshipmen are in the rank structure. There is info on Commissioned Officers and Warrant Officers. Midshipmen are listed under USNA sections.

 

[Riper Snifle]

Neil Armstrong actually completed Naval Flight training as a Midshipman back in 1949. He became an Ensign after becoming carrier qualified in 1951 and saw action in Korea shorty thereafter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Armstrong

There is an interesting ascension program.

 

[Fly Navy]

turns out midshipmen are actually a restricted line in the officer ranks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midshipman)

where is the rank of midshipman actually placed in the entire rank system? are they higher ranked than all enlisted/Warrant Officer ranks but subordinate to all commissioned officers?

I've been told by other mids that we are higher ranked, but I don't think so...

Ooooh the quicksand that is known as Wikipedia. Don't believe everything yous ee on there.

Btw, we used to joke that being a Middie was an O-0.

 

[FMRAM]

While on Summer Training ROTC MIDN are subject to UCMJ. At all other times we are civilians that wear a uniform and play Navy/USMC. Being in ROTC can't be considered the equivalent of being "in the Navy/USMC" IMHO. I would say the only real difference between us and civilians are that we wear uniforms once a week and are held to a higher standard academically/morally.

Don't forget physically...at my unit we PT like crazy men!

 

[The Chief]

I can't find anything in Title 10 that states Midshipmen are in the rank structure. There is info on Commissioned Officers and Warrant Officers. Midshipmen are listed under USNA sections.

The only "authority" I could find is the USNA Catalog, pp 33 in my version - i.e., rank between CWO and O-1. Also my UCMJ, dog eared as it is makes no distinction between USNA and NROTC. Back in my day USNA Middies were superior to NROTC, I thought they had fixed that when Col John Glenn had all middies graduating into the reserves instead of Regular Nav, of course all that has changed and perhaps we are back where we started from, as they are now Regular Nav.

I guess I would not mind change if things did not stay the same.