Midshipman Rank

[heerothewizard]

Midshipman?

The rank MIDN means Midshipman, correct? I thought this is only the title given to those going through the Naval Academy. Is that right, or is that title given to others as well?

^______________^
thanks

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GO NAVY! BEAT ARMY!

 

[nittany03]

I'm not sure on all these details, so if I'm giving out bad gouge somebody please call me on it, but here we go. A Midshipman is enrolled either at the Naval Academy or at a civilian university in Naval ROTC. It's more complicated in ROTC since many prior enlisted folks (those in the STA-21 program and I don't know who else) are enrolled as Officer Candidates instead of Midshipmen. All people coming from the civilian ranks (an a few prior enlisted people) are called Midshipmen. I believe that at the Academy, everyone's a Mid.
Historically, Midshipmen have been Naval Officers in training, but back before these programs were conducted ashore, they acquired their name based on the berthing arrangements in the sailing ships of yore. Officers bunked aft, enlisted forward, and those between the grades were berthed amidships hence the term "Midshipman." The Naval Academy Mids are the only Midshipmen currently on active duty, those in ROTC are technically in a reserve status. Don't know if they call the OCS guys Officer Candidates or Midshipman. There's my $.02, so hopefully it's all right.

If God isn't a Penn State fan, than why is the sky blue and white?

 

[ea6bflyr]

Nicely Put! Your Freshman instructor is very proud...(shedding a tear!)
ea6bflyr

Go PENN STATE!

 

[webmaster]

LOL!

GO GATORS!

 

[nittany03]

*chuckle* thanks LT

If God isn't a Penn State fan, than why is the sky blue and white?

 

[heerothewizard]

Thanks. You'd think I'd know that, after researching the Academy, but no ^_^;;
I love this forum, everyone is so helpful!!

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GO NAVY! BEAT ARMY!

 

[chenama]

the rank of midshipman?

turns out midshipmen are actually a restricted line in the officer ranks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midshipman)

where is the rank of midshipman actually placed in the entire rank system? are they higher ranked than all enlisted/Warrant Officer ranks but subordinate to all commissioned officers?

I've been told by other mids that we are higher ranked, but I don't think so...

 

[raptor10]

turns out midshipmen are actually an unrestricted line in the officer ranks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midshipman)

where is the rank of midshipman actually placed in the entire rank system? are they higher ranked than all enlisted/Warrant Officer ranks but subordinate to all commissioned officers?

I've been told by other mids that we are higher ranked, but I don't think so...

fixed...

 

[snake020]

Any midshipman or cadet that thinks they outrank any enlisted/NCO/warrant officer needs one of those three to take them down a peg or two.

I don't know how it is in the Navy, but in Air Force ROTC, when you contract you generally enlist as an A1C (E-3) and are subject to call up in that rank if you don't complete the program. One guy that was two years ahead of me and had a pilot slot kept taking advantage of opportunities to screw up and is now a Senior Airman/E-4.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I'd be kind of interested to hear what some of the more senior folks have to say about this one....

I have heard the following:

1) we rank between enlisted and warrant officers
2) we rank as E-5's (seems hard to imagine since we have no enlisted experience)
3) we defy the rank structure (not likely)
4) we are civilians (relatively ignorant comment made by a 3/c PO on a summer cruise)

I have also heard that senior (1/c) midshipmen rate a "sir" and salute (there was a long inconclusive thread about this a while back.....I'm still skeptical about this one)

anyone have the real answer?

 

[raptor10]

The Court of Military Appeals has held that a midshipman is “an inchoate officer’’ whose conduct is measured by the same standards as is an officer’s and whose “separation from the service . . . should not be equated with that of an enlisted man.”

 

[virtu050]

technically you are more a junior officer. when you go on midshipman cruises you should be hanging out with the j.o.'s because that's what you'll be one day.

your rank of midshipman really has no bearing on the real navy seeing as you are not leading enlisted. the enlisted see that you're wearing khaki and may think you are a junior chief.... either that or they find you annoying if not mildly amusing.

Look at it this way... an ensign has almost zero respect from E's when they first check in... eventually they earn it over time. A midshipman has even less respect than an ensign. So talk of rank is kind of a moot point. When I was an Officer Candidate wearing the star shoulder board with no stripes I was approached at the mall and asked if I was a rear admiral.

 

[snake020]

When I was an Officer Candidate wearing the star shoulder board with no stripes I was approached at the mall and asked if I was a rear admiral.

Did you play along?

 

[Fezz CB]

I remember doing my enlisted cruise as a middy. We berthed with enlisted, worked with enlisted, etc. I found the training very beneficial. Kind of like a snapshot of what life as an enlisted personnel is like. No one really knew we were Mids because we wore working blues most of the time with no MIDN insignia.

@ MIDNJAC: When I was a MIDN, the officers at my NROTC unit told us we ranked above Warrants and below Ensigns. But that in no way validates being a prick and expecting enlisted to salute you or call you sir. I found being humble as a MIDN will lead to much success after commissioning and beyond. Gallivanting as an junior officer just makes you look like a tool and it embarasses those who wear the same uniform as you.

 

[A4sForever]

I'd be kind of interested to hear what some of the more senior folks have to say about this one....

I thought this was resolved a year ago in another thread, but ..... You want a "senior folk's" input, huh??? Well, it might have changed slightly over the decades ... anything is "possible" ... but back-in-the-day a MIDN fell out between a CWO and an O-1 in the Naval Officer pecking order hierarchy.

We used to have 3 summer cruises in the four-year REGULAR program and this subject occasionally came up when in the Fleet.

If you are a Midshipman in your first two years --- you don't "rate" a salute from enlisted --- you even wear "enlisted" uniforms of a sort when working on cruise. But you should accept and return said salutes (when proffered) with the same respect in which they are theoretically offered, in any case. You usually wear a "baby officer's" uniform on liberty.

If you are a Midshipman in your second two years, i.e., a 2/C or 1/C Middie --- you DO rate a salute and the privilieges and responsibilities of a junior JO. Make that ... a really, really junior JO. You stand JOOD and other "Officer" watches underway and in port . Do you "rate" a salute or a "Sir" in this instance?

What do you think .... ???

There are historical examples in the American Navy and military wherein a MIDSHIPMAN or CADET was the last surviving "officer" and the command devolved down to him. ... and did they rate a "salute"?

Again, what do you think, gents .... ???

My 1/C cruise --- I was the "senior" boat officer on a 12 boat landing wave assaulting a beach near Kavalla, Greece. The position had been specifically assigned to me by the XO of the LSD I was embarked on .... do you suppose I "rated" a salute in that situation?? Do you suppose the sailors and Marines called me .. "Sir"??? You bet your sweet ass ....

Oh, yeah --- the Chief assigned as my "overseer/bodyguard" never got more than 2-3 feet from my side. Our conversations usually sent something like this: "Right, Chief .... I think that's good advice ....". To which the Chief responded: " Yessir ..."

We had a Gunnery Sergeant in the Unit fresh back from I Corps in S. Vietnam where he had set up the "sniper school" in-country .... he was even written up in "Argosy" men's magazine or some other popular pulp magazine of the era (was it "True, A Man's Magazine"?) about USMC sniping in Vietnam. He had a grainy blow-up of a picture of himself on his wall --- down on one knee -- holding his Remington Model 700/M40 in one hand while with the other hand holding up the head of a VC by the hair who he had just recently dispatched. Crossed eyes ... bullet hole in the forehead, bad day for the VC, GREAT STUFF if you're into sniping .... anyway, all the right stuff. Some thought Gunny had little tombstones where other people have .... teeth.

He was as hard and tough and experienced as they come. But yet, because he was squared away, he called me "Sir" and I called him "Gunnery Sergeant"....

Yes, sir ....