Mentoring Needed

[Zarathustra]

All,

I will first describe what I have done up to this point and then my current situation with the hope for further advice,

Like every pilot before me im sure it was their dream since they were a kid. This was the same for me but i did not realize i could accomplish this dream until my brother 2nd LT Ian Thomas McVey was killed in 2008. He taught me many things including honor and patriotism. But what he taught me more than anything was that if you wanted to accomplish something never make excuses for your situation, take responsibility and go out and conquer.

He was killed my Sophomore summer in college and instead of taking time off from school i focused on finishing college and moving on to my career in Marine/Navy Aviation. Although i was never the best student my grades suffered tremendously. After burying my brother I dropped from a 2.85 to what i finished with, a 2.23 GPA. I do not make any excuse for my academic performance and if i could go back and change it i would. But i did what was best for me at that time, for my family, and just focused on graduating above a 2.0 and applying for OCC once i graduated.

Since i graduated I had trouble with the ASTB the first time i took it i got 4's and 5's and only a 48. I refused to accept this as my "potential" and took the test again after working day and night for a few months and got 7/8/8 60. I realize this is not the best score in the world and i know if given the opportunity i can do better. But given my circumstances of never touching a physics or math book in college and not knowing anything about aviation prior, i think i did decently.

I then needed eye surgery to be able to get through the flight physical for the Marines but couldn't even read the 20/20 chart with my vision corrected in the doc's chair. I got the surgery anyways and had a number of complications from a staph infection in my eye to my eyes not healing properly post-surgery. I had to wait 6 months to be reviewed and by the grace of god my vision today is 20/10 R 20/13 L. I was lucky there is no doubt about that.

Unfortunately I was not picked up for Aviation through the Marines this past summer because my glaring GPA 2.23 so i applied through the Navy this past winter as well. In a week's notice i managed to assemble a polished application with proper recommendations and thoroughly written essays regarding my undergrad academic performance a week before it was due. Unfortunately for this past December board my application was kicked back because my GPA was below the 2.5 minimum for Aviation applicants.

My only option was then to take enough classes to raise my overall GPA to the Aviation minimum of 2.5 and re-apply. I need a minimum of 22 credits at a 4.0 scale, something i without a doubt believe i am capable of if i was given the opportunity. However i cannot take this many credits to raise my GPA before the summer board deadline in May 2013 and if i wait until next December after finishing the credits raising my GPA, by the time i leave in March 2014 i will graduate from OCS not even a month past my 27th birthday (turn 27 May 27th 2014) and therefore be too "old".

And to add insult to injury, my office just had an applicant picked up for Aviation in the December board my application was denied. He had 5's and a 48 on the ASTB and a 2.5 GPA...

What's done is done and I cant go back. I still wish to pursue my dream of being a Naval Aviator but do realize that this is slowly slipping away more and more out of my grasp. My only option would be to commission as a SWO and after 2 years re-designate. I do wish to serve my country and it would be an honor to serve as an officer virtually under any MOS even if it wasn't as a pilot but I also want to do anything and EVERYTHING i can to pursue this dream before it's too late and the opportunity is gone forever and I am an "old man filled with regret".

I do not know much about SWO and the lateral transfer process from what ive read is very hit or miss. I wouldn't go into being a SWO only with the intention of being a pilot. If i was given the opportunity I would be the best damn SWO I could be for my country, my superiors and myself. I would earn the respect of my superiors through my work ethic with the hope of one day being able to transfer to pilot.

Another issue is that if it takes 2 years and I do get picked up for this March OCS class I wouldn't be able to re-designate until i was 3 months past my 28th birthday and from what i understand the age waiver is ONLY up to 29 for pilot if you're in service? I know it's 31 for NFO?

Is there really NOTHING i can do about my GPA?

What would you suggest about joining the other branches as a pilot? what about air national guard even?

I realize this is a long document and thought it better to lay everything out on the line so that nothing is misunderstood about myself or my intentions to be a pilot,

Thank you,

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Sorry to hear about your brother, your post is very detailed which is good, I cannot tell you about lateral transfer, but I can tell you about GPA, and no there is nothing you can do about it, they have to set the bar somewhere and 2.5 is where they decided to set it.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Keep trying, I'm not sure how it happened (granted it was a different time four years ago before the economy collapsed) but I was somehow picked up for pilot with a 2.39 and 7/8/8 56. The minimum back then was supposed to be 2.5.

 

[Zarathustra]

NavyOffRec,

Thank you for your condolences. I will keep looking into the SWO option, do you know anything about an age waiver up to 31 for pilot if you are already in service? I have read that up to 29 for prior service and 31 if you are already serving.

Mr. Blonde,

Wow, that really is something. I am almost on the cusp of 2.5 not as close as a 2.39 but I dont believe my GPA reflects my potential as an officer and pilot. I will keep trying. I have atleast 2 more boards and potentially a 3rd that i could apply for before my 27th birthday if I submit my application for January 21st.

What are both of your thoughts on looking into the other branches and air national guard? After I have completed my masters degree, which I will obtain nothing short of a 3.5 GPA

Thank you.

 

[LFCFan]

What are both of your thoughts on looking into the other branches and air national guard? After I have completed my masters degree, which I will obtain nothing short of a 3.5 GPA

Thank you.

As someone who applied with a master's, they'll average those two GPAs giving equal weight to each credit hour from both. So this might mean that your total GPA could be above 2.5 - but NavyOffRec can clarify whether or not having a 2.5 for any degree is an issue.

If you check out baseops, they can give you more AF related help if you are trying to explore your options there. I do know that the AF age limit for pilot training is 30, so if you end up too old for the Navy that might be an option.

 

[BigRed389]

NavyOffRec,

Thank you for your condolences. I will keep looking into the SWO option, do you know anything about an age waiver up to 31 for pilot if you are already in service? I have read that up to 29 for prior service and 31 if you are already serving.

Mr. Blonde,

Wow, that really is something. I am almost on the cusp of 2.5 not as close as a 2.39 but I dont believe my GPA reflects my potential as an officer and pilot. I will keep trying. I have atleast 2 more boards and potentially a 3rd that i could apply for before my 27th birthday if I submit my application for January 21st.

What are both of your thoughts on looking into the other branches and air national guard? After I have completed my masters degree, which I will obtain nothing short of a 3.5 GPA

Thank you.

If it looks like you have a reasonable chance of success looking at other branches (have you looked at Army WOFT?), I would recommend that over banking on a lat transfer. There are a lot of things that are out of your control that could absolutely wreck your chances of a lat transfer.

 

[Zarathustra]

As someone who applied with a master's, they'll average those two GPAs giving equal weight to each credit hour from both. So this might mean that your total GPA could be above 2.5 - but NavyOffRec can clarify whether or not having a 2.5 for any degree is an issue.

If you check out baseops, they can give you more AF related help if you are trying to explore your options there. I do know that the AF age limit for pilot training is 30, so if you end up too old for the Navy that might be an option.

LFCFan,

Yes although this is true that a masters and virtually any credits will help average out my GPA i cannot take the needed 22 credits from now until May to raise my GPA. The soonest i can finish taking that many credits would be the end of the summer but that would put me in line for a December board, getting to OCS for March and graduating a few weeks after my 27th birthday. And unfortunately i just found this information out right before the holidays.

I will continue to look into the AF program since i do not know too much about it yet. I only heard about people getting selected for drones despite of how well they did in training. At this point I really want to fly anything in the military (preferably in Naval Aviation) but being a drone pilot wouldn't be as satisfying I imagine.

Thank you

 

[Zarathustra]

If it looks like you have a reasonable chance of success looking at other branches (have you looked at Army WOFT?), I would recommend that over banking on a lat transfer. There are a lot of things that are out of your control that could absolutely wreck your chances of a lat transfer.

BigRed,

I am going to start taking classes this Spring and hopefully complete my Masters of 40 credits by the time I am 27 1/2. I know this will virtually replace my undergrad performance, i just wish i had known all of this 5 years ago when i really set this as my path in life.

I agree about the lat-transfer scenario, there are a lot of "ifs" and a lot of ifs that need to work out for it to become a reality. Like i said it would be one thing going in as SWO knowing that i was ultimately working towards a career in Aviation and essentially putting in my time "proving" myself in SWO before moving on. But this does not seem the case. I am still curious as to whether the age limit is 31 for pilot and nfo if you are already in service?

I do not know much about Army WOFT, from what ive heard is that you contract and put a request in for what you want as your MOS and then at bootcamp they designate you?

 

[LFCFan]

I will continue to look into the AF program since i do not know too much about it yet. I only heard about people getting selected for drones despite of how well they did in training. At this point I really want to fly anything in the military (preferably in Naval Aviation) but being a drone pilot wouldn't be as satisfying I imagine.

Thank you

So right now a UAV pilot is a separate designator with its own training program and different wings. I don't think USAF are selecting guys out of UPT to fly drones anymore, at least according to my friends in the AF. You can probably poke around on baseops if you want to double check that.

Anyway, I don't wanna do the wannabe telling the other wannabe what to do thing, but thought you might want to know that.

 

[BackOrdered]

I'm not going to sell you out of SWO life, but one doesn’t simply excel as a SWO and lat-xfer into Aviation. I would say a lat-xfers out of SWO is vastly more difficult than getting into OCS. It is full of variables completely out of your control and I have witnessed many aviation minded SWOs simply get a CO who hates the idea and that’s a wrap.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

As someone who applied with a master's, they'll average those two GPAs giving equal weight to each credit hour from both. So this might mean that your total GPA could be above 2.5 - but NavyOffRec can clarify whether or not having a 2.5 for any degree is an issue.

If you check out baseops, they can give you more AF related help if you are trying to explore your options there. I do know that the AF age limit for pilot training is 30, so if you end up too old for the Navy that might be an option.

It is averaged, and this is done by adding up the GPA points from both degrees and then dividing by GPA credits attempted, simple example: degree 1 120 credits attempted and 240 GPA points for 2.0 GPA, add that to degree 2 60 credits attempted and 180 GPA points that has a 3.0 GPA and your totals are 180 credits attempted 420 GPA points which gives 2.33 overall GPA

 

[Zarathustra]

I'm not going to sell you out of SWO life, but one doesn’t simply excel as a SWO and lat-xfer into Aviation. I would say a lat-xfers out of SWO is vastly more difficult than getting into OCS. It is full of variables completely out of your control and I have witnessed many aviation minded SWOs simply get a CO who hates the idea and that’s a wrap.

Tiz,

Thank you for your honesty. Although the truth isn't always what we want to hear i appreciate honesty a lot more than "fluff"

I see the SWO-SNA as a lot of "ifs" that need to take place in order for it to happen. Does that mean it's impossible? no. But does it mean that if one of those "ifs" which is out of my control goes south that I cant be a pilot? yes. And just as you say if i get a CO who isn't on board then it's over.

I am still going to re apply for this January board regardless of my GPA and if it gets kicked back again so be it, I will keep trying. The worst that could happen is they say no... again.

Thank you

 

[Zarathustra]

It is averaged, and this is done by adding up the GPA points from both degrees and then dividing by GPA credits attempted, simple example: degree 1 120 credits attempted and 240 GPA points for 2.0 GPA, add that to degree 2 60 credits attempted and 180 GPA points that has a 3.0 GPA and your totals are 180 credits attempted 420 GPA points which gives 2.33 overall GPA

I will be working towards my masters degree starting this Spring, 40 credits, 10 classes that will take me atleast until May 2014 to finish if not that following December or May 2015.

I know my Navy recruiter brought up this concept of a "degree completion plan" stating that i would complete my degree on time before i attend OCS. I am wondering if i can apply to the other branches and fill out this form for my application and virtually eliminate my undergrad performance. If so i may have success being a pilot in the AF or air national guard ? This is something that I am going to need to research in great detail. What do you guys think?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I will be working towards my masters degree starting this Spring, 40 credits, 10 classes that will take me atleast until May 2014 to finish if not that following December or May 2015.

I know my Navy recruiter brought up this concept of a "degree completion plan" stating that i would complete my degree on time before i attend OCS. I am wondering if i can apply to the other branches and fill out this form for my application and virtually eliminate my undergrad performance. If so i may have success being a pilot in the AF or air national guard ? This is something that I am going to need to research in great detail. What do you guys think?

How many credits did you attempt for your undergrad and was it qtr or semester? A Master's will not virtually replace as the credit requirements are much lower for a Masters as you know.

If you apply for SNA the NRD by the book is not supposed to forward your application due to being lower than 2.5 and if they do then there is a GS5 at NRC that will reject it like was done before, if it doesn't meet the minimum requirements it is never seen by the board.

 

[Zarathustra]

How many credits did you attempt for your undergrad and was it qtr or semester? A Master's will not virtually replace as the credit requirements are much lower for a Masters as you know.

If you apply for SNA the NRD by the book is not supposed to forward your application due to being lower than 2.5 and if they do then there is a GS5 at NRC that will reject it like was done before, if it doesn't meet the minimum requirements it is never seen by the board.

NavyOffRec,

Thank you for your response,

I have 121 credits giving me a cumulative 2.23 GPA. My undergrad had two semesters Fall and Spring annually.

Yes although a Masters would not "replace" my undergrad GPA because as you point out since it only counts as 40 credits for MA, combined with my bachelors that is only 161 credits total. But It would allow me to do 2 things.

1) it would allow me to effectively raise my combined GPA above the minimum 2.5 letting me to be reviewed by the board for a pilot application.
2) I know that i will be very successful in a masters program, i know i will get atleast a 3.5 GPA. If i could just somehow have the MA completed i know this would allow me to demonstrate my academic qualifications on paper in the eyes of the board.

It is just unfortunate that no matter what, come this May 2013 it is humanly impossible to complete a masters in this time frame. And by the time i could complete it I will be too old to apply.

If i submitted again for this January despite being below the minimum 2.5 for pilot it most likely would get rejected and therefore not even be reviewed by the board as you say. But maybe by some miracle they will read my cover letter and give me a shot at being reviewed by the board. And if the previous responder on my thread said he was accepted with a 2.39 GPA I dont think it would hurt to try. At this point it doesn't seem like i have any other option?