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Maryland EMS Helo Mishap (9-28-2008)

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m0tbaillie

Former SWO
MIDNJAC said:
Off subject of the actual details of the crash, it is pretty amazing that the driver of the car survived both a serious auto accident, as well as a fatal helo mishap in a single morning.
Click to expand...

Very true. However, that'll mess your day up: car accident AND helicopter crash in the same morning? What are the odds...
 
P

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
Fox 5 just played some tapes from the mishap, as well as the preliminary report from the NTSB. Here's the nuts and bolts:

  • Trooper 2 departed Waldorf enroute to Prince George's Hospital Center (21 minute flight)
  • Hospital is unworkable, diverts to Andrews AFB.
  • Requests ILS from Approach, not receiving glideslope.
  • Requests ASR from Approach - "I am not current or qualified to do that"
  • No further transmissions from Trooper 2
Is it wrong to be pissed at the Approach Controllers at Andrews? Is it normal to have an untrained controller on duty? Where was the supervisor? What if he had a major electrical problem and the only way he would land safely was via no-gyro vectors?
 
scoolbubba

scoolbubba

Brett327 gargles ballsacks
pilot
Contributor
what is the equivalent of red ink to a controller? not saying this case that i think anything untoward happened, as i don't know anything... but what happens when they do screw up?
 
Rubiks06

Rubiks06

Registered User
pilot
Never having flown into Andrews and not trying to Monday morning QB too much, but if we aren't getting glide slope we could revert to the localizer right? Mins are usually fairly close if not the same as the ASR...IIRC.
 
Redux

Redux

Well-Known Member
phrogpilot73 said:
Fox 5 just played some tapes from the mishap, as well as the preliminary report from the NTSB. Here's the nuts and bolts:

  • Trooper 2 departed Waldorf enroute to Prince George's Hospital Center (21 minute flight)
  • Hospital is unworkable, diverts to Andrews AFB.
  • Requests ILS from Approach, not receiving glideslope.
  • Requests ASR from Approach - "I am not current or qualified to do that"
  • No further transmissions from Trooper 2
Is it wrong to be pissed at the Approach Controllers at Andrews? Is it normal to have an untrained controller on duty? Where was the supervisor? What if he had a major electrical problem and the only way he would land safely was via no-gyro vectors?
Click to expand...


WOW, tho it's been years I have gone into Andrews hundreds of times and NEVER heard anything like "I am not current or qualified to do that"!

WTF is going on? :confused:
 
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phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
Rubiks06 said:
Never having flown into Andrews and not trying to Monday morning QB too much, but if we aren't getting glide slope we could revert to the localizer right? Mins are usually fairly close if not the same as the ASR...IIRC.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but as a pilot why would you request an ASR vice Localizer? My guess is that he didn't trust his VOR/ILS equipment or felt like he was losing the bubble. Both very valid reasons to not go with the localizer.
 
busdriver

busdriver

Well-Known Member
None
It's not an answerable question, but did the pilot consider himself inadvertent IMC? If so, why not declare an emergency? If a non-current/student controller heard "emergency" that might have been the clue bird he needed to get some help.

The NTSB website isn't loading at my location, what equipment did Trooper 2 have? Rad-alt, etc.?
 
E

exhelodrvr

Well-Known Member
pilot
I beleive that all of the H-3s in my squadron had more than 10K when I retired; of course the youngest of them was about 30 years old.
 
ChuckMK23

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
busdriver said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/07/AR2009030701842_pf.html

The WaPo's article about the crash last year. I'm curious about heloanjin's opinion. Have you guys given any thought to dual pilot ops?
Click to expand...

There are many options to be looked at as far as operations go in reducing the risks that lead to this mishap. Personally though I don't think adding another pilot is one of them - it's just not feasible.

You can - and should be able to fly a helicopter single piloted. For a single aircraft operation run 24x7 you need 4 full time pilots minimum plus coverage for illness and vacations. Between salaries and benefits it's hard to justify adding a copilot in any scenario other than what the FAA mandates under Part 135 or 91.

The root cause of EMS mishaps are generally poor wx reporting at destination - and lack of some defined risk management. In the 8 minutes you have to get airborne folks overlook the most basics of analysis of conditions on their route of flight. EMS is a round trip operation - you need to ensure you can get back with the patient - not just get to the scene or transferring hospital.
 
scoolbubba

scoolbubba

Brett327 gargles ballsacks
pilot
Contributor
I didn't understand the part about how a doc must be consulted prior to sending the Troopers out. Does that mean there is a doc on every ambulance crew on the ground now; they talk to someone over radio and describe the injuries or situation and he makes the call, or there is a doc in dispatch deciding whether to send the helo or not? Anyone have any insight into this?

Are people bleeding out of holes in their heads while a doc is making a decision somewhere else?
 
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