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Marksmanship

Notanaviator said:
Another way to look at this and @Random8145's points, I think I've gotten to the point where I look at politicians all the same way, regardless of background. As we all know, any community in and out of the military has its assholes, prima donnas, etc., but I feel like there's an increasingly common denominator of folks who would even want to be elected officials these days, especially at State and Federal level, and it's not 'servant leader' types. So I think this is more selection bias - there are good SEALs and asshole SEALs I'm sure, but playing 'who wants to be a Congressman' is probably statistically more likely given political climate to draw from the latter population.
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The issue here is this is a political party issue, not a personal issue. Unless you can feed the partisans red meat the two political committees (republican and democrat) won’t touch you and that means they won’t fund you. Most ordinary people can’t afford to run for office and most decent people would be happy to compromise for the sake of the nation…that is not what the parties want. I don’t know a thing about the candidate in Montana. The story about the injury is so vague (a result of poor reporting AND poor responding from his camp) and unusual it kind of slips into political nothingness. In other words, those who like the guy will scream “hit job!” and those who hate him will scream “liar and fake!”

As with most of these stories I don’t get to vote for the good/bad person so I wish the people of Montana a good election and all happiness with their choice.
 
GroundPounder said:
The point that I was going to make, except clearer and more briefly stated.

Think about it like this @Random8145 , how many of the top software coding people would also be the best person to go out and sell the final product? Two different skill sets, that don't often intersect.

The personality traits that make someone thrive in the NSW community might also be potentially problematic if not restrained by leadership, policy and/or culture of a command. Supposedly, the Army's Tier 1 unit has not had as many issues since they source people that are older and have been exposed to the other side of the military versus SEALs which predominantly come from the civilian world straight in to special operations.
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I understand that, but there is a difference between being an actual bad person versus being say a jerk. Cocky a-holes who aren't unethical but just are jerks I can see becoming Special Ops, but I just had the impression most were otherwise moral/ethical people.
 
Notanaviator said:
Another way to look at this and @Random8145's points, I think I've gotten to the point where I look at politicians all the same way, regardless of background. As we all know, any community in and out of the military has its assholes, prima donnas, etc., but I feel like there's an increasingly common denominator of folks who would even want to be elected officials these days, especially at State and Federal level, and it's not 'servant leader' types. So I think this is more selection bias - there are good SEALs and asshole SEALs I'm sure, but playing 'who wants to be a Congressman' is probably statistically more likely given political climate to draw from the latter population.
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I think your points are correct, and aligns with my prior assertion that the former Interior Secretary is a D-Bag. He was trading off his brand of being a former SEAL to make waves as a cabinet secretary.. it kind of blew up on him, but not really (he's doing fine).

I suspect there was a revolt among the interior Dept beaurocrats when he proposed that GS-14's and above fan out across the NCR to conduct field day inspections of their underling's residences. 😆
 
number9 said:
Where do you draw the line as to what's fundamental to a particular rate or designator? I had to complete the swim qual, the damage control trainer, and the basic firefighting school when I went to ODS. While I enjoyed each of them, it is highly unlikely that I will ever go on a ship. If I never need those skills, why are they fundamental?

And, as FLGUY eloquently points out, the "save money" part is hilarious: the amount of ammo I would consume to get qualified would be a rounding error on a rounding error on a rounding error.


In all seriousness, I am very aware that I am a POG. I don't think I'm special, and I don't think my designator is special either. However, I do think that everyone in every branch of the armed forces should be able to qualify with their branch's choice of firearms.

What could be more basic in the armed forces than knowing how to shoot?
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OP, I couldn't agree more, it's an important warfighting competency.
 
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CrossedKeys said:
I am late to this party, but I might have some useful perspective and information. It seems that the bulk of you in this forum are officers, so it would behoove you all to look at the OPNAV 3591, which says that Navy commands are allowed to establish MOUs with certain private ranges/contractors, under certain conditions, for the purpose of weapons quals. This has been done through MWR at a few bases, including around Norfolk. If you are at an NRC, you folks in Khaki could pull strings and get some MOU put together, either for your units or the whole command, to get MWR shoots put together out in town. Just a thought.
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It would behoove you to shut the fuck up and read the room if you want to be welcome here.
 
Brett327 said:
That was a little harsh.
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Sometimes you have to shoot a new guy in the face to set the tone. Behoove. Fuck him. He doesn't get to use that term with us until he's established himself and earned some wings.


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Hair Warrior said:
To the OP and others:

There used to be a semi-public, USMC-run range at Norfolk (Camp Ellmore? the name got changed at least once) where you could pay $50 for a Navy pistol qual and $60 for Navy rifle qual. This covered range time and ammo but not much in the way of instruction. Seems like a great option for reservists as it’s not impacting the range time or ammo of active units needing quals, yet they know how to administer the Navy qualification standard and generate the qual paperwork. I qual’d there but it was very much ad hoc. YMMV

FWIW, any RSO can administer the Navy rifle and pistol qual. The regs are in OPNAVINST 3591.1F.

With respect to the comments about “requirements” and mob, you will be given weapons training if and when you need it. The Navy actually codes this to your NE/NN billet number. If you aren’t being told to receive it, you don’t need it.

I might have shot more ammo as an 1835 than any other 1835 (excluding their time as an 1830 or previous rate/designator, and only counting in uniform with issued weapons, not sport shooting on own time/dime outside the Navy). You reach a point when you don’t want to shoot any more. It was pretty fun but like all fun it has an end.
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To get back to the original topic, if you're ever out in the Norfolk/VB area, one of the former Camp Elmore RSOs started his own training LLC that administers monthly Pistol and Rifle qualification shoots by renting out one side of a public range in VB. Google Poseidon Defense, his site has the class info, calendar and registration link. I took both courses at Elmore years ago before it closed and re-took the pistol course with Poseidon early last year, he gives a bit more basic instruction and walks through the courses of fire before beginning the shoot. He runs it solid and it's not a guaranteed E, there was a sailor that didn't even qualify for marksman when I went (no, not me ha!). I was provided a copy of the 3591 with my scores that I sent over to my admin shop to update my record. It's not cheap, but the cost includes weapon rental and ammo, and there don't appear to be many other opportunities for sailors to obtain this qual if not required for their billet.
 
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