Marine pilots at the Pentagon

[PhatFarmer35]

I just recently went on a tour of the Pentagon and I saw a lot of Marine Corps and Navy pilots there. I just wanted to know what exactly a USMC pilot would do during a tour at the Pentagon. Also, how long are tours at the Pentagon and can you request to go there?

 

[46Driver]

Pilots don´t just fly. The higher up you move in rank, the more you will be expected to fill a staff position. Company grade can fly, but jobs like the Pentagon and staffs require more experience and judgement. In other words, the higher up you go, expect less time doing worker bee stuff and more time managing and planning.

Most tours are 3 years.

 

[phrogdriver]

There are a lot of guys who will go as a major, typically after a second fleet tour, which would be your 3rd or 4th tour overall. It's a big check-in-the-box, expecially working aviation money and manning in the Marine "aviation hallway." As one gets higher, expect more emphasis on getting a broader base of experience or moving into non-aviation jobs, to the point where you will typically only fly as a LtCol if you are CO or XO of a squadron.

 

[Killer2]

Thats another reason why I decided on the Marines, because unlike what a lot of Navy folks say, ground tours (where you are not flying) are NOT Career Killers, but in fact required. What I want to know is would that job or any job in the pentagon be someting like bing an Adjutant (sp) ?

 

[phrogdriver]

Believe me, the Navy has plenty of required ground tours, but they're called "disassociated sea tours." Not-flying, but still on a ship. EVERY service, except warrant officers in the Army, will have non-flying tours required for pilots at some point in their careers.

The Pentagon jobs for Marine pilots are at desks, but other than that are not like adjutants. An adjutant is responsible for the administrative needs of the CO and the personnel of a unit. A pilot's job in the puzzle palace may be figuring out how many of a given airframe we'll need in 5 years or figuring out how HQMC can adjust manning to fill required billets in combat units, etc., etc. There is a certain amount of errands for higher-ups as always, but at HQMC, you're giving briefs, developing plans, whatever, as part of the big picture.

 

[PhatFarmer35]

Is there any kind of specfic training a someone would have to go threw if they were about to start a tour at the Pentagon? Or are they already expected to know how to handle all the paperwork and everything. If you have to go on a ground tour eventually anyways, could you request to go to the Pentagon?

What other types of errands and plans would a pilot work on? Would you say that working at the Pentagon as opposed to another base on a ground tour would be more interesting or pretty much the same?

 

[Flash]

Is there any kind of specfic training a someone would have to go threw if they were about to start a tour at the Pentagon? Or are they already expected to know how to handle all the paperwork and everything. If you have to go on a ground tour eventually anyways, could you request to go to the Pentagon?

What other types of errands and plans would a pilot work on? Would you say that working at the Pentagon as opposed to another base on a ground tour would be more interesting or pretty much the same?

While I am not a Marine I do work at the Pentagon so I will try and tell you what I have learned. First off, officers here in the Pentagon can do varied jobs in varied places. You can find some working budget requirements, others personnel issues, some legslative affairs (how to make a Congressman happy) and some will even be on a watch floor. There are countless jobs for guys here in this big 5 sided target. Not only are there countless jobs but there are numerous entities you could work for, the OSD, SecNav, any of the major commands, several of the intel agencies, JCS, etc. One thing you can be certain of though, you will probably end up at least in the DC area if you stay in long enough and if you make flag, you are definitly going to make a stop here.

You can volunteer to come work here, though you may want to have your head examined , I have my appointment next week. As for if it is more interesting, my job is definitely unique to the area and it exposes you, even at a low level, to the forces and politics behind many of the decisions made that affect national and defense policies. That being said, sometimes you are too close. I personally don't like politics, it is too gray for me. Give me the black and white of the military (some may argue it is not but I would say it is much more so than the real world). You probably would get more of an operationally oriented staff experience if you went to EUCOM or PACOM and still get some of the experience, though you may not know the reasons behind some of the decisions that you get from back here in DC. And one more thing, the buearacracy here is overwhelming. You have to deal with it every day, to get even the simplest of tasks done is a bear.

Finally, one of the biggest advantages of coming here is that you are "in the know" now, you have your foot in the door. I have met people from all the services (my boss is an Air Force O-5 ) and people from all of the 3 letter agencies. Networking is the name of the game here and this is the place to do it in government.

 

[PhatFarmer35]

Thank you.

You are a NFO working at the Pentagon right? I'm guessing a NFO would do almost the same thing at the Pentagon that a pilot would except dealing with NFO related issues correct?

Out of the people who volenteer to work at the Pentagon, do most people have a problem being selected to go there?

 

[46Driver]

No difference between being a pilot, NFO, infantry or supply while you are at the Pentagon or any other staff. You are dealing with policy, finance, and a myriad of other issues - whether you are a pilot, NFO, or anything else is irrelevant.

 

[PhatFarmer35]

So would you say that what your job is as an officer has nothing to do with what you actually do while at the Pentagon? Or would a pilot or NFO be just dealing with aviation related issues?

Also, what types of things would an Marine 0-4 pilot do to effect policy and things of that nature?

 

[Flash]

So would you say that what your job is as an officer has nothing to do with what you actually do while at the Pentagon? Or would a pilot or NFO be just dealing with aviation related issues?

Also, what types of things would an Marine 0-4 pilot do to effect policy and things of that nature?

I am sorry to contradict what 46Driver has to say but the particular job I am in right now does require an aviator/NFO type to be in it. There are a few of us who work in my office and we work on mostly aviation specific stuff. That being said, the vast majority of jobs do not require you to be a particular type of officer. There are many billets for "operators" like SWO's, Sub guys, infantry, armor, etc. and there are others that require Intel types (a lot of those around here) but there are few that require aviators specifically.

As an O-4, you will not have a direct impact on policy and plans usually. However, you might end up doing a lot of background, writing, or laying the groundwork for policy makers who will be making the big decisions. I was in a meeting the other day where we discussing some policy decisions. The group was to make the recommendations to a policy maker. They will do what they want but your decisions at he middle level will influence them, the degree of which depends on the situation and the person. So while you are not going to greatly influence policy, you might have a little impact on it, if you are lucky.

One more thing, your background as an "operator" is valuable, you would be suprised at how many people who are the decision makers do not have that kind of experience.

 

[D_mac05]

Has anyone ever read the biography of "John Boyd"? I know he's an Air Farce, but great book. He talked about how he influenced MANY decisions (particularly in fighter community, but elsewhere also) at a low pay grade. Many times though, he made an a$$ of himself doing it though. Great book...just recommending it.

 

[VAmookie]

"Now, I want you to remember that no bastard won a war by dying for his country....he won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for HIS country!!".....??Adolf Hitler??

That was Patton

 

[46Driver]

I am sorry to contradict what 46Driver has to say but the particular job I am in right now does require an aviator/NFO type to be in it. There are a few of us who work in my office and we work on mostly aviation specific stuff. That being said, the vast majority of jobs do not require you to be a particular type of officer. There are many billets for "operators" like SWO's, Sub guys, infantry, armor, etc. and there are others that require Intel types (a lot of those around here) but there are few that require aviators specifically.

As an O-4, you will not have a direct impact on policy and plans usually. However, you might end up doing a lot of background, writing, or laying the groundwork for policy makers who will be making the big decisions. I was in a meeting the other day where we discussing some policy decisions. The group was to make the recommendations to a policy maker. They will do what they want but your decisions at he middle level will influence them, the degree of which depends on the situation and the person. So while you are not going to greatly influence policy, you might have a little impact on it, if you are lucky.

One more thing, your background as an "operator" is valuable, you would be suprised at how many people who are the decision makers do not have that kind of experience.

Better choice of words, most billets do not specifically require an aviator.

 

[PhatFarmer35]

I know this is an old thread but I just had a few more questions.

Do you need a top secret secruity clearance to work at the Pentagon?

46Driver also said that most tours are 3 years, would it be possible to be a FAC for a year and then work at the Pentagon for 2 years?

Also, for those of you who have worked at the Pentagon, in your opinion would you have enough time to get a graduate degree in your freetime either online or at a college in the Washington DC area?

Thank you.