• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

Marine F/A-18D WSO/NFO

Status
Not open for further replies.

FlyingFortress

Flying turd
Have a few questions about the job responsibilities of a Marine F-18 nfo.

1) Does the F-18D have a 2nd set of flight controls in the backseat for the wso?

2) Is it the WSO's job to find, align, and drop ordinance on targets? Is the WSO pulling the trigger on ground targets?

3) Is the WSO basically the mission commander since he is in charge of navigation, communications, and ordinance? It always seems to be a capt. piloting the plane while there is a major or Lt. Col. in the backseat (atleast in the AF).

If you have ANY info on this position, let me know. Thanks.
 

airwinger

Member
pilot
The only one I can put some perspective on is that the Pilot In Command is always the pilot, no matter how junior. From some IP's I've heard that it makes for interesting situations when a 1stLt pilot is flying with the LtCol CO/NFO. Or in the prowler community a 1stLt pilot and 3 Majors-NFO's. As everyone knows, there's absolutely no rank in the cockpit.

In a totally unrelated occurence, I've notice that most of the lads here want to fly single seat jets. I wonder why?
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
airwinger said:
In a totally unrelated occurence, I've notice that most of the lads here want to fly single seat jets. I wonder why?

Sh!t, I'd love a F model Super Hornet. Extra eyes and extra hands are always good. Not to mention someone to talk to.
 

FlyinHigh

New Member
i agree with fly navy, i would like to get a two seater jet if i make it to that point, i mean twice the power;spotting traffic, allows you to focus on your primary job and the NFO on his/her job, and like fly navy said someone to talk to, probably become one of your best friends real quick id imagine. sure someone on here can comment on that
 

airwinger

Member
pilot
Hmm my personal opinion is that after nearly 2 years in the training command(and no wings yet yah!!) getting yelled at, I'd love to fly a plane with no ICS:)
 

SteveG75

Retired and starting that second career
None
FlyingFortress said:
1) Does the F-18D have a 2nd set of flight controls in the backseat for the wso?

No.

FlyingFortress said:
2) Is it the WSO's job to find, align, and drop ordinance on targets? Is the WSO pulling the trigger on ground targets?

The WSO can find targets but the only pickle to drop/fire ordance is in the front.

FlyingFortress said:
3) Is the WSO basically the mission commander since he is in charge of navigation, communications, and ordinance? It always seems to be a capt. piloting the plane while there is a major or Lt. Col. in the backseat (atleast in the AF).

No. The Marines send all Hornet pilots throught the same RAG and they are all "single-seat" mentality. There is really no crew-coordination training since the Corp may take a C pilot and stick him in a D squadron and vice-versa. WSO's have basically told me that when D squadrons started, the pilot attitude was basically "shut up and I'll tell you what to do".

The EA-6B is a much more NFO driven platfrom due the the design of the aircraft and the mission.
 

FlyingFortress

Flying turd
So then exactly what does an F/A-18D NFO do?

I've met the 2nd highest-scoring ace in Vietnam. I was shocked when he said he was an F-4 WSO, a BACKSEATER! How is this possible? Look him up on the net, Charles Debellevue.
 

squeeze

Retired Harrier Dude
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
FlyingFortress said:
So then exactly what does an F/A-18D NFO do?

I've met the 2nd highest-scoring ace in Vietnam. I was shocked when he said he was an F-4 WSO, a BACKSEATER! How is this possible? Look him up on the net, Charles Debellevue.

No such thing as a "2nd highest-scoring ace" in Vietnam. Only 2 crews even attained Ace status - Randy Cunningham/Willie Driscoll & Steve Ritchie/Chuck Debellevue. Granted, Debellevue rode along for 6 kills (which would of made him highest scoring had he been a pilot), Cunningham and Ritchie were the only 2 to down 5 NV aircraft. Robin Olds downed 4, but he already had 12 from WWII.

/history dork & fighter pilot wannabe
 

SteveG75

Retired and starting that second career
None
FlyingFortress said:
So then exactly what does an F/A-18D NFO do?

WSO actually has a lot of stuff available to him to do. He can run the radar (if the pilot lets him), handle comms (if the pilot lets him), find/designate targets with the FLIR (if the pilot lets him). It is very easy to be overtasked in a high-stress environment and good crew coordination can make the difference between a successful mission and coming back the next day. The problem with the F/A-18D is that it does not have missionized cockpits. One example of this is that in the F/A-18F, the pilot and WSO can timeshare the radar, can't do that in the 18D. This is becuase the D was developed from the C which was designed to do everything from the front seat.
The D pilots are taught to do it all themselves in the RAG due the Corps philosophy that an F/A18 pilot is an F/A18 pilot is an F/A18 pilot and that they are interchangeable between C's and D's. If you take a pilot trained to work with a WSO and stick him in an F/A-18C, he is easily overwhelmed. So, they train them in the C and so they do not work well with a WSO in a D.
This is contrasted with the A-6E where it was a true crew concept. The pilot go me to the target and I found it and hit it.
 

NozeMan

Are you threatening me?
pilot
Super Moderator
squeeze said:
No such thing as a "2nd highest-scoring ace" in Vietnam. Only 2 crews even attained Ace status - Randy Cunningham/Willie Driscoll & Steve Ritchie/Chuck Debellevue. Granted, Debellevue rode along for 6 kills (which would of made him highest scoring had he been a pilot), Cunningham and Ritchie were the only 2 to down 5 NV aircraft. Robin Olds downed 4, but he already had 12 from WWII.

/history dork & fighter pilot wannabe

Well, I wouldn't say Debellevue (or Driscoll for tha tmatter) just "road along". That may not be a fair assessment of his role. Yes, he was an NFO, but obviously he had something to do with he and the pilot downing enemy aircraft. Clearly since he was a WSO, he had something to do with the weapons employment in the engagement, and at the very least he was an extra set of eyes that found the enemy and enabled the pilot to maneuver for the kill. The WSO's road into harms way just like the pilots did, they deserve their credit.

On a side note, I met COMTHIRDFLT last summer, and he was credited with a MiG-21 over vietnam, he was a WSO as well.
 

airwinger

Member
pilot
It's probably pretty tough for the WSO's/NFO's, alot tougher than I could handle. A tiny example is the IPs here. One of their collateral duties is to talk to us, over beers about the fleet and what we can look forward to. The D pilots to a man tell us they wish they had gone single seat(as do the prowler guys). They point to a weakening of pilot skill espcially as SteveG75 pointed out they can go back and forth. The ideal D pilot is one that has a JO tour as a single seat guy.

An interesting story is one from an superhornet RAG IP who told us about an F-14 guy who was doing the transition. Well this lad showed up to an instrument re-check without any approach plates. Seems the RIO handled those 'mundane' issues. Was pretty put out when he failed the check.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
squeeze said:
No such thing as a "2nd highest-scoring ace" in Vietnam. Only 2 crews even attained Ace status - Randy Cunningham/Willie Driscoll & Steve Ritchie/Chuck Debellevue. Granted, Debellevue rode along for 6 kills (which would of made him highest scoring had he been a pilot), Cunningham and Ritchie were the only 2 to down 5 NV aircraft. Robin Olds downed 4, but he already had 12 from WWII.

/history dork & fighter pilot wannabe

Jeffrey Feinstein, an Air Force WSO also got credited with 5 kills. The AF and Navy both officially credit both the Pilot and WSO/NFO with the kills but I believe organizations like the Ameircan Fighter Aces Association do not.

I am pretty sure that Debellevue got a transittion to pilot right after gettign home and the last I saw he had commanded a fighter wing 10 or so years ago.
 

Pat1USMC

Enroute to VMAQ-1
Airwinger, the mission commander is different than the pilot in command. In the Prowler, ECMO 3 is usually mission commander.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top