Marine Corps to Open Infantry Officer Course to Women

[Random8145]

http://www.military.com/news/articl...icer-infantry-school-to-women.html?ESRC=eb.nl

 

[Reconjoe]

Here's one potential problem I see with this: I just had a friend (A flight student attrite) who was re-designated as ground Intel. Great candidate I thought, physically strong and had a decent head on his shoulders. He makes it to the last day of IOC and they flat out tell him they wont graduate him because despite him getting through, they didn't have confidence in him leading...something about his ability to command respect and confidence in subordinates. He was for a lack of a better term "Marginal". Nothing wrong with that, not everyone is cut out...
So what's going to happen to the marginal females that come through the program? God forbid the first class of a few women actually don't make the cut...how is that review board going to look when they make the same professional assertion? I foresee a fear of passing a judgement like that only to expose yourself to a possible public backlash or a 4 star thinking you're not playing along with their rather public gesture. Guess what it boils down to is will the board feel like they have to pass some of the marginal candidates for the sake of being PC?

For what it's worth I have zero problem with capable females being in the infantry, I just hate the idea that it could be just a big political show that will get someone hurt down the road.

 

[Brett327]

They'll probably go through the same machinations as other communities when they had their first females. The pendulum will swing one way, then another - seems like that's the way things go and it's hard to avoid it. Price of progress, I suppose.

 

[sodajones]

I've had female enlisted and female officers while deployed as a combat engineer. Of the dozens I've worked with, only one, a Lt, ever earned my personal respect. The rest of them either had glaring inadequacies or were a net-negative on the unit and the position they filled. For the Lt. that I greatly respect, she did her job, didn't whore around, could keep up physically, and put her nose to the grindstone and worked hard. She didn't expect special treatment, she didn't flirt, she just worked hard and did her job...something I expect of every marine. The rest of them either whored around, didn't carry their weight, created social situation nightmares, and/or were malingers.

I've also worked with females in different MOSs that were not so physically demanding or field related. They have been good, bad, or marginal just like their male counterparts. I don't have a problem with women in the military but I do think people need to recognize that the ground pounders are a different sort with an atmosphere that is very stark and uncompromising. You either have it or don't. The primitive requirements of a ground pounder and the realities of these jobs don't allow room for an atmosphere of compromise. I just don't see women in the combat arms as a net positive. I have nothing against women it's just about who and what gets the job done and it can't be about anything else in that line of work.




Wouldn't want to leave this post completely cereal, Mmmkay.




IOC Class Graduation photos.

 

[squorch2]

Sounds a lot like arguments against women in aviation.

 

[pourts]

http://www.military.com/news/articl...icer-infantry-school-to-women.html?ESRC=eb.nl

fixed the link:

http://www.military.com/news/articl...school-to-women.html?comp=700001075741&rank=7

 

[Hotdogs]

The rest of them either whored around

...and the men don't? I know more male whores in the Marine Corps than I do female ones.

 

[pourts]

This looks like the Corps trying to lead turn budget cuts by becomming the teacher's pet. I guess if we want flight hours in 2 years this is how we ensure that.

Are there women out there who could be shit hot platoon commanders, and on up the line? YES. Do enough of them exist to make a policy like this cost-effective, or anything more than a dog and pony show? No.

 

[pourts]

...and the men don't? I know more male whores in the Marine Corps than I do female ones.

Because you know more male Marines than female ones.

 

[Hotdogs]

Because you know more male Marines than female ones.

Well if you want to play with numbers like that, yeah that's correct.

However, if you also want use per capita, then I'd still stand by it.

 

[Random8145]

The potential problem I see with the whole thing is that it ignores reality. We have separate men's and women's physical fitness standards for the military branches, for police, and firefighters, and separate men's and women's teams in sports. The reasons for this are because women are so much physically weaker than men that the numbers of them in all of those jobs would be significantly reduced if they had to adhere to the same standards as the men. But infantry, in particular, is a different animal. Infantry doesn't care if you're a man or a woman if you have to carry 130 lbs of gear every day or undergo forced marching (and infantry is hard on a man's body, let alone a woman's). There is a large size and strength differential between men and women.

Another thing to think about is the Israelis tried female infantry and ended it when a group of female soldiers got slaughtered within the span of a week I think it was. Today they do have female infantry in the Caracal battalion, but that battalion is kept away from the hardcore fighting that is handled by the all-male battalions and limited mostly to just border patrol.

 

[FLYMARINES]

Here we go again. We just can't leave a good thing alone. We have to make it "better."

 

[Sapper!]

The potential problem I see with the whole thing is that it ignores reality. We have separate men's and women's physical fitness standards for the military branches, for police, and firefighters, and separate men's and women's teams in sports. The reasons for this are because women are so much physically weaker than men that the numbers of them in all of those jobs would be significantly reduced if they had to adhere to the same standards as the men. But infantry, in particular, is a different animal. Infantry doesn't care if you're a man or a woman if you have to carry 130 lbs of gear every day or undergo forced marching quote]

.

Many women do fine but you talk about take the wind out of guys sails when they are down and their leader shows weakness. The weakness itself, like you said, is the difference in standards that are there. We used to go weeks without showers and lived in tents meanwhile the attached females got shower and a ride back to barracks everynight. Talk about piss the joes off...not to mention you ever see a 110 lb 5' woman try to get a pounder over a 1 m pickett?! much less slam it into the ground and do 2000m of that before knocking off to go on a 12 hour patrol, only to return again that evening and knock out another 1000m. Well maybe they should go infantry, easier than combat engineering any day

 

[squorch2]

The easy solution is universal, performance-based standards.

 

[OnTopTime]

The rest of them either whored around, didn't carry their weight, created social situation nightmares, and/or were malingers.

And who were these female Marines whoring around with? Whoever it was, wouldn't they be whoring around as well? If whoring around is a problem, do only the women get the blame (assuming the whoring around is mixed gender)? Or is there a clear double standard here?