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MAJOR IRR Policy Change...

subreservist

Well-Known Member
There is more to the VTU than MOB avoidance. It is much more relaxed and much easier than SELRES. Some people just need a break from it all due to various circumstances.

A well written letter to the board could clear all of that up. So can participating and adding value while you are in the VTU.
This is the part I don't quite understand about VTU. I get the MOB avoidance and I get O5 and above needing a place to park if they can't find a paid billet.

But I don't get how it's easier if you're still drilling? What are you getting a break from? I'm guessing the 2 week AT requirement? Otherwise, it seems like you're still doing all the same upkeep minus the pay, as vxc mentioned.

I'm not trying to down the VTU, and there is obviously a need for it, I just don't get the "easier" part.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
This is the part I don't quite understand about VTU. I get the MOB avoidance and I get O5 and above needing a place to park if they can't find a paid billet.

But I don't get how it's easier if you're still drilling? What are you getting a break from? I'm guessing the 2 week AT requirement? Otherwise, it seems like you're still doing all the same upkeep minus the pay, as vxc mentioned.

I'm not trying to down the VTU, and there is obviously a need for it, I just don't get the "easier" part.
You don’t have the unit-specific training requirements for the unit’s mission. That frees you up from the regular drill schedule, all you have is the bare bones GMT and medical readiness stuff and that stuff is usually available on successive drill weekends if you want to miss one or more months and reschedule your drill dates.
 

subreservist

Well-Known Member
You don’t have the unit-specific training requirements for the unit’s mission. That frees you up from the regular drill schedule, all you have is the bare bones GMT and medical readiness stuff and that stuff is usually available on successive drill weekends if you want to miss one or more months and reschedule your drill dates.
I guess I can kinda understand that for a high tempo unit that is extremely involved in the parent mission. I do realize each unit is different; each community is different. With the unit's I was part of, we might do a 1 or 2 hour training dedicated toward the parent command mission for the entire drill weekend. But honestly, folks that were on the medical or dental hit list, or just had some other thing to do, would just skip out anyway.

I guess if you were taking some classes or something, you could fill that spare time in VTU pretty easily. And I rescheduled drills all the time, so not sure that's a unique aspect to VTU.

I see it as you're still travelling to a NOSC and still reporting to a building and/or OIC and looking to fill your time, whether with personal or professional tasks. Which is exactly like SELRES? It does seem the primary benefit to an outsider is the MOB avoidance followed by the retirement point continuance when no other option is available for pay.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
... retirement point continuance when no other option is available for pay.
I think the retirement points for a good year and most of all the Tricare are what keeps a lot of people around in the reserves. (The adventure and the sense of serving your country and the satisfaction from both of those things keep people around for a while, but sooner or later most people have their fill... about the same time they have had their fill of the B.S.) But I realize that a lot of people have trouble making the jump to not getting paid to drill and doing it for points only. Even when you're financially secure, that's still a big leap to work two more days a month for zero pay.

I learned a lot from talking to reservists from all walks of life and by taking what I might have heard from one person and asking another if they'd thought of this or that consideration. For me and my own lifelong financial security, I'm glad I stuck around as an FTS... but it's not for everyone (case in point, @Sam I am, the OP in this thread, turned down an FTS slot several years ago for his own life/career/family reasons- and very good reasons in his circumstances).
 
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nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Threadjack possibility: I’d be interested to see what the advent of 12304(b) authorities does for the perception of having to MOB. TL; DR, it’s a new provision in Title 10 to MOB in support of COCOMs outside OCO. The MOB billets have to be POMed out, so there’s a two year lead time.

Bad news: It allows the MOB train to keep on rolling independently of OCO.

Good news: the savvy SELRES CO can work with the AC to use 12304(b) to create MOBs supporting their own unit, not handing out basketballs in CENTCOM. And then tell JOAPPLY/CMS-ID folks “yeah, you’ll MOB, but you’ll MOB for me and actually do the job you’re applying for.”
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
I see it as you're still travelling to a NOSC and still reporting to a building and/or OIC and looking to fill your time, whether with personal or professional tasks. Which is exactly like SELRES? It does seem the primary benefit to an outsider is the MOB avoidance followed by the retirement point continuance when no other option is available for pay.
I could literally sit in my VTU classroom and do nothing all weekend (watch movies, work on civilian work, etc). I have zero responsibilities other than to maintain my readiness which takes a two drill weekends: the first is during the NOSC unit in the spotlight (admin and medical requirements) and the second is during PFA season. Other than that, I could ghost the remainder of the time and no one would give a flip.

Compare this to other units where I had to either FLEX drill or regular drill, and was the ADMINO/TRAINO/OPSO/MWR/Berthing/AT Planner & Budgeteer bubba.

I can also support whomever I want doing whatever I want which is not something you can do as SELRES. If you are sitting on your thumbs in a SELRES unit and want to go support somewhere else, there is no way in hell the SELRES unit CO would let you do that.

For me it is extreme flexibility with zero stress, as well as no worries about being mobilized (been there done that).
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Eventually I do want to go back overseas and the timing/circumstances may be as such where I can't be SELRES. Is it possible to do VTU drill at an embassy?
Short answer is "maybe" and you'd be more likely to get "yes" for an answer if you do some of the legwork and make it as easy as possible for your NOSC.

You can reschedule any drill to pretty much anywhere. As for the nuts and bolts of actually doing that, well, since everything went to electronic muster (online) a few years ago, it would be a lot easier if there was a Navy person at the embassy to muster you (the embassy in a lot countries has a mil liaison group with at least one rep from each of the armed services). On paper (in a sense) you'd be reporting for duty to the embassy to do whatever reserve tasks and accomplishments you needed to do. It would probably help to spell everything out in a memorandum of understanding.


Pay close attention to this part:
Even though there is normally no drill pay for VTU drilling, still think of it the same way as paid drills (since there is compensation from retirement points, etc.). The reserves get pretty excited about authorizing and paying drills for unusual circumstances when there is a good opportunity for fraud and too thin a paper trail. Figure out how to mitigate those concerns with procedural controls to reasonably prevent the possibility of fraud. I know that phrase sounds very businessy and managementese, but it would help to look at it from that perspective. The people signing your reserve paycheck like things normal and by-the-book. If you want to drill in a weird place (like an embassy) then you will want to show how your special deal clearly follows the rules. It's been months since I had to GAF about "financial audit readiness," but that's a real thing in reserve personnel management.


The last I heard, NOSC Jax was supposed to have all of the cats and dogs in overseas reserve units (and the NOSC staff is billeted accordingly to handle that). If you asked them about VTU drills at an embassy, I wouldn't be surprised if the first answer you get is "You want do do what?" but if you've done some homework first then that will help the conversation proceed.

I'm not saying it is definitely possible, but if it could then this is one possible way.
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
Slight thread jack, but there's another thread that inquires about VTU/overseas:

https://www.airwarriors.com/community/index.php?threads/vtu-how-to-manage-a-navy-reserve-vtu-career-while-living-overseas.45337/

Eventually I do want to go back overseas and the timing/circumstances may be as such where I can't be SELRES. Is it possible to do VTU drill at an embassy?
Yes. I have a member doing just this. All you have to do is to be able to document what you are doing and have someone there, E6 and above, be able to muster you if you are performing outside the DWE. For our member, we have the member checkin and checkout with us via our unit WhatsApp channel and list what they were working on or do a video chat so we can speak with the member. The member does, however, still travel to the unit location at least twice a year (unit in the spotlight and PFA). The member is not technically telecommuting because they are in a government facility.
 

subreservist

Well-Known Member
I could literally sit in my VTU classroom and do nothing all weekend (watch movies, work on civilian work, etc).

Compare this to other units where I had to either FLEX drill or regular drill, and was the ADMINO/TRAINO/OPSO/MWR/Berthing/AT Planner & Budgeteer bubba.

I can also support whomever I want doing whatever I want which is not something you can do as SELRES. If you are sitting on your thumbs in a SELRES unit and want to go support somewhere else, there is no way in hell the SELRES unit CO would let you do that.
Appreciate this feedback. I do like the idea of being able to support any mission. That is a definite benefit!

Your other points, kinda bring it back to what vxc stated about EVALS/FITREPS. It can't help promotion chances to not have a collateral duty (which means you would have to make up that shortfall in another way). A letter to the board doesn't do much if there isn't much to actually put in it. If you're good with your rank, then it's not an issue.

As you mentioned, it seems like the best use of VTU is the MOB benefit and when done with the BS to have somewhere to park until you are ready to drop retirement papers.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
It's been said before but it bears repeating- you can still get ADT orders from the VTU if you really want to get your fix from playing Navy in short doses. For a lot of guys who are in the reserves for a long time, that "two weeks a year" is something they really look forward to. If you've been in the reserves for only a short time then don't underestimate it. Don't think going to the VTU completely closes the door on it either.

Poke around the Govdelivery link on the CNRFC website and sign up for email alerts. If something strikes your fancy then call up the point of contact. Even if it says AT orders only, they might still be able to scare up ADT money and you never know if you don't ask. Don't be afraid to network too- if you have a specific community where, again, you'd like to go play Navy for a couple weeks, sometimes the OSOs have latitude with their ADT funds and they can put a qualified, motivated person on ADT orders for a couple weeks to do something that they might not have otherwise gone through the trouble to advertise.

Don't just think of it in terms of a few weeks either. I knew a VTU YN who got ADSW orders for about a year to one of the training wings (filling an FTS billet doing, well, YN and PS stuff), and that will probably help the individual with advancement in the short term and the long term. Location, life situation, and job/finances had a lot to do with that- different strokes for different folks. Reserve pilots sometimes get put on ADSW orders for months at a time too.


Nobody tells you this stuff in career path briefs on your JO tour because most of the people on normal career paths in normal fleet units have no idea what else is out there- there is way too much stuff for any one person to know all of it.
 

Hair Warrior

New Member
Threadjack possibility: I’d be interested to see what the advent of 12304(b) authorities does for the perception of having to MOB. TL; DR, it’s a new provision in Title 10 to MOB in support of COCOMs outside OCO. The MOB billets have to be POMed out, so there’s a two year lead time.

Bad news: It allows the MOB train to keep on rolling independently of OCO.

Good news: the savvy SELRES CO can work with the AC to use 12304(b) to create MOBs supporting their own unit, not handing out basketballs in CENTCOM. And then tell JOAPPLY/CMS-ID folks “yeah, you’ll MOB, but you’ll MOB for me and actually do the job you’re applying for.”
Since it’s not OCO funded, how does that square with things like post-9/11 GI bill or the acceleration of retirement benefits (comes one day sooner than age 60 for each day mob’d in support of OCO)?
 

bubblehead

Registered Member
Contributor
You can go on as much ADSW and ADT that you can find while the VTU doing whatever mission you want. It's actually quite a "thing" especially if you have a clearance.
 

nittany03

FUBIJAR
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Since it’s not OCO funded, how does that square with things like post-9/11 GI bill or the acceleration of retirement benefits (comes one day sooner than age 60 for each day mob’d in support of OCO)?
I don't know about the retirement bump, but you get GI Bill since they passed the "Forever GI Bill" act in 2017. Initially, you didn't because the original Post 9/11 GI Bill legislation only specified the Presidential call-up authorities, not 12304b, so they had to pass a new law to fix it. More importantly, you get the 5:1 dwell. So if you hypothetically do a POMed 12304b MOB with your unit, you get your AFRM with "M" device just like everyone else, and CNRFC can't touch you for some random bullshit until your dwell is up. Some people just can't MOB period for family reasons or whatever, and need to go IRR. Others just have an issue with getting yoinked to go overseas and fill some rando billet.
 
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