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Lowest OAR Score

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
This reminds me of the story when I was applying for a grad program (hybrid executive program). I took the GMAT (without much studying) and got the score I deserved - which was below average.

Anywho, I had my interview and right away the admissions rep mentioned my low GMAT score. I tried to overcome it with my military experience only to get shot down - for every one of me there’s a dozen more military folks with much better scores and the same (if not better) experience. I did not get selected that selection board.

I studied up (for real) for the GMAT and scored better. I didn’t change much of the rest of my application and was selected the second go around.

Moral of the story: plenty of “milestone” opportunities will require some sort of test to get in. For enlisted, you have the ASVAB. For schools, you have the SAT, GRE, MCAT, etc. Lots of agencies require an entrance exam and good score in order to get hired. Professional certifications require you to pass an exam.

The real world could give two shits if you’re a good leader or not. It might not seem fair that you’re being judged based off an aptitude test, but that’s how big Navy and the respective Officer communities want to play. Deal with it.

Retake that fucking test and improve your score or submit your shit scores with the expectation that the odds are against you. For every one of you there are dozens more fleet/active duty guys with much better scores.
 

BackOrdered

Well-Known Member
Contributor
He is on transmit, not receive. What? Say again, you got stepped on.

You know, a couple pages ago I was thinking about going out on a ledge for him...I was going to ask @Dalilali where he's stationed and maybe offer to meet him at Starbucks and help him out, mentor him on the path to a bar. But there's no getting through to him, so I'll spend my time on my own Sailors who actually are receptive. He must have a DIVO. I wonder what he/she would say to this whole thread...

Are we not all (the older posters) at the point where we know better and can just sip our morning coffee at our desks, input our bread crumb of wisdom and clear our conscience knowing we did our part?

I had an aspiring LDO tell me mid officer interview for his LDO package "what does knowledge checks on Naval vessel experiences have to do with a Naval Officer interview?" No sarcasm. Needless to say, the rest of the interview didn't go any better. I cancelled his follow on interview with the O-6 Active LDO I knew, as well as a few O-6 mentors...."now just isn't a good time, Captains."

Maybe I was just wrong all along. Chief had moxy! So much moxy I would observe him as he proceeded to question and/or challenge the voices of wisdom and reason regarding anything and everything told to him, from Chief, Sailor and Officer alike, the rest of his tenure at that command. There wasn't a hill he wouldn't die on. Not a piece of good advice he couldn't shoot down as "knowing better", no matter how many face plants he endured. Needless to say he didn't make LDO, almost as if something baked in the system stopped him. Believe it or not, I in fact learned much from that Chief.........I'm at the point where as long as a loss of treasure or life doesn't occur, my compulsion just isn't needed anymore for these cases, I'll do the right thing, but life is just a better teacher at times.
 
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Dalilali

Member
Yes and I understand this. Thank you all for you very real opinions. As I truly appreciate them. It is a real eye opener and I love the honesty and how blunt each and every one of you have been.
However if you read my original question i was asking about the lowest score on the 1420. I got the answer from the recruit guru. When he said the PAs supersede the 1420 and that was all. However I also asked if anyone had ever been commissioned with that low of a score since it did say that a 35 was the lowest anyone can really go but, the instruction is 10 years old and a lot of things in the Navy have changed.
Yes I understand how tests work and why they are in place. And I get it. Not trying to argue that.
I was wondering not trying to argue with any of you. But, thank you all
 

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
Yes and I understand this. Thank you all for you very real opinions. As I truly appreciate them. It is a real eye opener and I love the honesty and how blunt each and every one of you have been.
However if you read my original question i was asking about the lowest score on the 1420. I got the answer from the recruit guru. When he said the PAs supersede the 1420 and that was all. However I also asked if anyone had ever been commissioned with that low of a score since it did say that a 35 was the lowest anyone can really go but, the instruction is 10 years old and a lot of things in the Navy have changed.
Yes I understand how tests work and why they are in place. And I get it. Not trying to argue that.
I was wondering not trying to argue with any of you. But, thank you all

Stop referencing the 1420. CNRC PAs trump the OPNAVINST when it comes to program eligibility.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Are we not all (the older posters) at the point where we know better and can just sip our morning coffee at our desks, input our bread crumb of wisdom and clear our conscience knowing we did our part?

I had an aspiring LDO tell me mid officer interview for his LDO package "what does knowledge checks on Naval vessel experiences have to do with a Naval Officer interview?" No sarcasm. Needless to say, the rest of the interview didn't go any better. I cancelled his follow on interview with the O-6 Active LDO I knew, as well as a few O-6 mentors...."now just isn't a good time, Captains."

Maybe I was just wrong all along. Chief had moxy! So much moxy I would observe him as he proceeded to question and/or challenge the voices of wisdom and reason regarding anything and everything told to him, from Chief, Sailor and Officer alike, the rest of his tenure at that command. There wasn't a hill he wouldn't die on. Not a piece of good advice he couldn't shoot down as "knowing better", no matter how many face plants he endured. Needless to say he didn't make LDO, almost as if something baked in the system stopped him. Believe it or not, I in fact learned much from that Chief.........I'm at the point where as long as a loss of treasure or life doesn't occur, my compulsion just isn't needed anymore for these cases, I'll do the right thing, but life is just a better teacher at times.
+1

Those of you writing interviewer appraisal sheets on these would-be officers are the first line of defense in screening out people who aren't ready. I've done a million of these things over the years, and there have been some truly outstanding applicants - some even got selected. There are even more Sailors, however, that either aren't serious about the process, lack the proper maturity, or otherwise lack the right skills or knowledge. I always ask people questions about geography, geo-political events and things that have been in the news to ascertain whether they're intellectually curious about the world around them. If someone is oblivious to that, chances are, they're not going to be a good fit.

Bottom line, being a good LPO doesn't mean you're going to be a good officer.
 

BackOrdered

Well-Known Member
Contributor
+1

Those of you writing interviewer appraisal sheets on these would-be officers are the first line of defense in screening out people who aren't ready. I've done a million of these things over the years, and there have been some truly outstanding applicants - some even got selected. There are even more Sailors, however, that either aren't serious about the process, lack the proper maturity, or otherwise lack the right skills or knowledge. I always ask people questions about geography, geo-political events and things that have been in the news to ascertain whether they're intellectually curious about the world around them. If someone is oblivious to that, chances are, they're not going to be a good fit.

Bottom line, being a good LPO doesn't mean you're going to be a good officer.

I ask the exact same things, except I preface it with, "please feel free to ask questions." Then at end, I give the "why", which is, "as an O-1 I don't expect you to know everything, but I'm looking to see if you are trainable."

I had a PS2 going up for Nurse Corps during my murder board miss almost every question I asked, but proceeded to ask me respectfully for my help or for clarification during my board. I was stoked at her poise! I wrote a glowing recommendation and went over her package with a fine tooth comb. She is now a Nurse Corps Officer.

That was 5 or so years ago. Day and night from the CPO I interview, what, last year.......
 

bluemarlin04

Well-Known Member
One of my biggest issues with some of these interviews and also FITREPS is that a lot of these interviewers don't/won't just give negative feedback or mark the form down properly.

I saw it all the time. "Oh if we just mark it like this it signals to the board" (FITREPs and INTERVIEW Sheets). I don't understand why the rater just doesn't come out and say "you suck, here is why" and then proceed to list it out on the forms.

I see all these sailors get false hope cause they think they are rated high on these interview appraisal sheets but they are in fact just written like a FITREP.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
I'm afraid that's just one of those unintentional lessons in leadership.

(The corollary of that is if somebody gives you negative feedback and they deliver it directly, and respectfully, then you should probably thank that person for their forthrightness and continue to seek out their advice.)
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
One of my biggest issues with some of these interviews and also FITREPS is that a lot of these interviewers don't/won't just give negative feedback or mark the form down properly.

I saw it all the time. "Oh if we just mark it like this it signals to the board" (FITREPs and INTERVIEW Sheets). I don't understand why the rater just doesn't come out and say "you suck, here is why" and then proceed to list it out on the forms.

I see all these sailors get false hope cause they think they are rated high on these interview appraisal sheets but they are in fact just written like a FITREP.
The problem with this line of thinking is that you’re confusing the purpose of the interviewer appraisal sheet. It’s not a means of feedback to the applicant. In fact, they’re not even supposed to see it. It’s a means for the appraiser to communicate to the board. Anything less than a perfect rating is a thumbs down vote - clear and simple. It has always been this way.

The time to give feedback is face to face during the interview.
 

BackOrdered

Well-Known Member
Contributor
One of my biggest issues with some of these interviews and also FITREPS is that a lot of these interviewers don't/won't just give negative feedback or mark the form down properly.

I saw it all the time. "Oh if we just mark it like this it signals to the board" (FITREPs and INTERVIEW Sheets). I don't understand why the rater just doesn't come out and say "you suck, here is why" and then proceed to list it out on the forms.

I see all these sailors get false hope cause they think they are rated high on these interview appraisal sheets but they are in fact just written like a FITREP.

I seen negative appraisals all the time, follow by the, "what happened" debrief I have to give for another chance. I even gave a negative one before. People at times don't know that we go out on a limb for some interviewers' time and aren't self-aware that they were being "graded."

To reel this thread in, some of us guys here are getting older in both age and service, and we seen "stuff." If an overwhelming number of people here say that something is a bad idea, it usually is, with exceptions proving the rule.

I'll climb off my high horse and admit I NEVER had a decent SAT/ACT score. Frankly BDCP was the best deal at the end of the day, but ROTC and the Academy weren't for me. That's ok, especially when I saw the work of even boardline C student mids who made it into the academy and ROTC. They were better candidates than me. That's fine. Likewise, if the "Officer Aptitude Rating" Exam is a barrier, well......
 
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Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I'll say this - some of the negative feedback and imperfect scores in interview appraisals are duly warranted, and some are way off the mark.

Standard tests and graded evolutions during training courses (and other less partial filter mechanisms) throughout a naval officer's career are an important tool to keep people leveled and balance out "golden child" self-fulfilling prophesies/ group-think.

For example, someone who gets the best references, interviews, assignment selections at the start of their career may - if they aren't careful/humble - go around believing that they are truly the best, based solely off other people's opinions. When you put them through a tough course that is only passed with smarts, studying, hard work, and graded quizzes/tests/evolutions, it might help them understand that their peers might actually know more than they do about a certain topic. Or, they pass those tests with flying colors and truly are at their best. But it's an important check-and-balance on ego (internal) and group-think (external).

Those graded quizzes/tests/evolutions can also help professional boards, course instructors, and peers begin to notice someone outstanding who maybe wasn't on a golden path or had not been picked first during Navy screening/assignments. It enables someone to rise toward the top on their merits.
 

bluemarlin04

Well-Known Member
I interviewed a few people and one of the individuals with me wanted to mark a candidate In a way that the candidate would think they did good and were competitive. He didn’t want to sit and have the uncomfortable conversation on it with them.

I took him aside walking him out and explained to him his weakness on the board and that this appraisal didn’t go well and to come back.

On the topic of the OAR. Of course it’s important. It’s a standardized test. It’s an equalizer.

I did well on it and only had a 2.7 GPA from undergrad (NON-STEM) and did my associates at a JC and that was a 2.9 GPA. Still became a 1830 and had a mildly productive 7 years. Had I bombed the OAR I would have not even had a chance.
 

Seawolf_2020

Navy guy
I don't know who is telling you this but much of this is wrong, SOME designators (ie SWO) will waiver down to 40, but like a senior board member once said "why take someone with a waiver when we have many to pick from without", yes they do look at your record to make sure your PRT is in line with what is needed to be an officer but that is a go no-go, it doesn't help you get selected, it just lets you get looked at, evals almost same thing, they take a few minutes on each application, they rarely spend time to read each eval, with several designators the first cut is quick and brutal. often barely looking at the applications.

Take @subreservist advice, study then retake.
Why would this be a waiver? No waiver would be required if a prior service member or active duty member scored between 40-44. Maybe YOU ought to read the PA again.
 
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