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Look at what showed up in the mail today

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
^ With FOIA requests, someone gets to say no. And except in very unique situations I (perhaps, naively) believe that a FOIA for my SF-86 would be denied. Again, this is a matter of the DoD/USG not doing stupid shit to make the adversary's job easier.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
Transparency explains your post, or we should accept FOIA request for our personal information, because transparency?
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
As egregious as the OPM breach is, I'd be curious to know how much of this info could be obtained in other open source ways such as public records (police, court, bankruptcy records)?
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
I'm aware that this was a data breach. Just a reminder to those in public service that their privacy may not be what they think it is. As an aside (and the reason I know this) is that we had to provide certain clearance investigation details to the USAF to participate in one of their exercises. The only way to do this was to FOIA the investigations of the entire squadron, then submit that to the USAF. Talk about a backward way of doing business. On the plus side, I got to know what all my neighbors thought of me. :)
Wait...

Are you saying that the USAF refused to acknowledge a clearance in JPAS as good enough, then sent you on a goose chase to get a copy of everyone's clearance investigation to participate in THEIR exercise?

That not only sounds backwards, but like someone was jerking you guys around.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
This pretty much applies to any interaction with the organization.

Written from my desk at an AFB. sigh.

Concur. I was told that even though my clearance hadn't expired and was still in good standing based on any sane person's understanding of the DoD rules and JPAS was current, I still couldn't attend an AF school because it didn't meet THEIR requirements.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Transparency explains your post, or we should accept FOIA request for our personal information, because transparency?
Having processed a fair amount of FOIA requests in a previous job, I personally think the entire system has spiraled out of control. As with all things, the challenge is to find the appropriate balance between safeguarding information that needs protection, while making our government institutions more responsive to legitimate interests of its citizens within our construct of a free society. The idea that Joe Schmoe can FOIA the results of my background investigation troubles me on many levels. Having said that, I am a public official who is ultimately accountable to the people I serve. So, as long as that information relevant to my professional service doesn't present a harm to national security or my personal/private welfare, maybe I should consider the value of its release to the public as necessary to the trust of the American people in their military professionals. I'm not sure where that line is, but it's not black and white in my mind.

@Spekio - you clearly haven't worked with the USAF. At a minimum, I've had to submit an entire updated SF86 to participate in one of their exercises. They don't speak JPAS.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/06/encryption-would-not-have-helped-at-opm-says-dhs-official/
Some of the contractors that have helped OPM with managing internal data have had security issues of their own—including potentially giving foreign governments direct access to data long before the recent reported breaches. A consultant who did some work with a company contracted by OPM to manage personnel records for a number of agencies told Ars that he found the Unix systems administrator for the project "was in Argentina and his co-worker was physically located in the [People's Republic of China]. Both had direct access to every row of data in every database: they were root. Another team that worked with these databases had at its head two team members with PRC passports. I know that because I challenged them personally and revoked their privileges. From my perspective, OPM compromised this information more than three years ago and my take on the current breach is 'so what's new?'"

Burn all contractors.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
@Spekio - you clearly haven't worked with the USAF. At a minimum, I've had to submit an entire updated SF86 to participate in one of their exercises. They don't speak JPAS.
No, I haven't. And I was surprised because I've participated in super secret squirrel stuff that required special in briefings and paperwork, but no one ever asked me to produce a hard copy of my clearance investigation.

At what point does someone provide some top cover and say "hey, if you don't want to use the JOINT Personnel Adjudication System, then you go figure it out or we're not going to participate in your exercise?"

So, as long as that information relevant to my professional service doesn't present a harm to national security or my personal/private welfare, maybe I should consider the value of its release to the public as necessary to the trust of the American people in their military professionals. I'm not sure where that line is, but it's not black and white in my mind.
It seems like reasonable approach would be a summary of the findings and whether you are cleared/not cleared is reasonable, but your PII such as SS#, birthday, and places of residence should be redacted. So that's probably NOT what they do. I understand we're public officials but that doesn't entitle John Q. Public to obtain enough personal data to easily steal my identity.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
No, I haven't. And I was surprised because I've participated in super secret squirrel stuff that required special in briefings and paperwork, but no one ever asked me to produce a hard copy of my clearance investigation.

At what point does someone provide some top cover and say "hey, if you don't want to use the JOINT Personnel Adjudication System, then you go figure it out or we're not going to participate in your exercise?"
A point we haven't reached yet. I've seen similar issues to what Brett describes. It seems to be AF stan. Of course, looking at the history of the last 50 years, we can pretty much guarantee that if you do the opposite of whatever the AF is willing to go to the mat for, it's probably the right answer in general.
 

Beans

*1. Loins... GIRD
pilot
I thought "Joint" always meant "This is what the Air Force has forced us all to do"

Do they do that, then switch standards on us while we flail in their abandoned administrative quagmires?
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
No, I haven't. And I was surprised because I've participated in super secret squirrel stuff that required special in briefings and paperwork, but no one ever asked me to produce a hard copy of my clearance investigation.

At what point does someone provide some top cover and say "hey, if you don't want to use the JOINT Personnel Adjudication System, then you go figure it out or we're not going to participate in your exercise?"

It seems like reasonable approach would be a summary of the findings and whether you are cleared/not cleared is reasonable, but your PII such as SS#, birthday, and places of residence should be redacted. So that's probably NOT what they do. I understand we're public officials but that doesn't entitle John Q. Public to obtain enough personal data to easily steal my identity.

Top cover is not a factor. They don't need us for their exercises. We need them for our expeditionary Growler T&R matrices.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
making our government institutions more responsive to legitimate interests of its citizens within our construct of a free society.
You know, I'm really interested in seeing some transperency added to the drone program, the GTMO tribunals, and Area-51, because transparency and responsiveness...

But then you kinda countradict yourself with

. So, as long as that information relevant to my professional service doesn't present a harm to national security or my personal/private welfare.
Am I to presume you're in a position to determine that the release of SF-86 information is NOT a national security issue, or relevant to your personal/private welfare? And not just for you, but everyone other individual whose info has been compromised?

maybe I should consider the value of its release to the public as necessary to the trust of the American people in their military professionals.
I get the point you're trying to make. Let me know when this becomes an issue that JQP cares about. Until this issue (and the many like it) get the same level of public spotlight like sexual assault, suicide, and domestic violence it will continue to languish in the media backwater; something that matters to us, and is wholly abscent from the mainstream consciousness. I'm NOT comparing the harm done to a rape victim to that done to someone whose PII is compromised, so please don't anyone start that food fight. I'm saying that until this matter gets the same level of attention that Senator Gillibrand et al are giving sexaual assault don't expect much to change. Agree or disagree with her ideas and approaches, she helped to bring the topic into the public forum where changes have been made, and more may be yet to come.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I'm just conveying my own internal conflict on a complex issue. The fact that the public or the legislature isn't concerned about it doesn't mean we should avoid thinking of the possible implications for the civ-mil relationship.

I think you've misunderstood my take on transparency.
 
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