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Left-handed sig?
- Thread starter Dawgfan
- Start date
B
Blutonski816
Guest
I've put 50 rounds through a P2000 and I have to agree with A4's friend...
An excellent pistol... but unlike A4s said... I do not yet have the means... er... funds for an H&K....
...yet....
An excellent pistol... but unlike A4s said... I do not yet have the means... er... funds for an H&K....
...yet....
How's this for a "review"?? F.Y.I.:
Got a call-back today from the H&K guy at home-plate ... "Jim" ... he said wait for the HK45 later this year and then make a decision.
It was tough getting straight answers as he has an "axe" to grind. Maybe a pistol, too. He also said "walk away" from the USP Compact --- go with the P2000/2000SK --- forget the P3000 (it may never go into production). His personal "preference" ... based on being "in" the company ??? Go with the .40 S&W calibers (extant) and shun the 9mm and .357 SIG. More versatile, more available, more, more, more .... Maybe he just doesn't like the name ... "SIG"???
"More" of everything? That's kind of why I like the .45 ACP.
:icon_rast
Got a call-back today from the H&K guy at home-plate ... "Jim" ... he said wait for the HK45 later this year and then make a decision.
It was tough getting straight answers as he has an "axe" to grind. Maybe a pistol, too. He also said "walk away" from the USP Compact --- go with the P2000/2000SK --- forget the P3000 (it may never go into production). His personal "preference" ... based on being "in" the company ??? Go with the .40 S&W calibers (extant) and shun the 9mm and .357 SIG. More versatile, more available, more, more, more .... Maybe he just doesn't like the name ... "SIG"???
"More" of everything? That's kind of why I like the .45 ACP.
:icon_rast A4sForever said:"More" of everything? That's kind of why I like the .45 ACP.
Especially when with a +P load (admittedly one that's loaded hotter than hell) you can zing a 230-grain bullet at around 900 FPS. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't need a pistol round to travel any faster than that, and what can I say, I like my bullets the opposite of how I like most other things...big and heavy.
That's exactly what I'm doing (although I hate waiting). Next door neighbor has a nice little arsenal that includes a .45 USP. Looking at the HK45 though, it appears to have changeable grip inserts for the backside (rubber / rubberized?) that would allow the shooter to change the grip size as well as provide some recoil relief. It smacks of an "ergonomic USP." Shooter reviews will be the deciding factor I think. Appears to have a 5" barrel like a standard USP, so shot groupings should come off as a full-size rather than a compact (although I've seen some guys who were pretty good w/ a compact carry piece).A4sForever said:
I've wanted a .45 for years but always thought it to be a PITA to (quickly) strip a 1911 for cleaning. A couple times on our '92 pleasure cruise to Somalia/Gulf was enough. Now I'm spoiled w/ a 92FS for simplicity of breaking it down, but a Glock never really appealed to me (hence the desire for a USP). Besides anyone who can build a pistol that can fire a round to clear round lodged in the barrel and then continue to fire accurately in testing is one worthy of my business IMHO. But hey, I'm no expert regardless of my "gimme" E ribbon...
Just threadjacking this back to the issue of eye dominance instead of making a new one: If you have an opposing situation (i.e. right handed, left eye dominant), do you HAVE to then make yourself shoot left handed for proper accuracy, or can it still work with your right hand? (this question is obviously just for pistols). Only asking as I'm planning on starting recreational shooting pretty soon, was just curious
pdx
HSM Pilot
Especially when with a +P load (admittedly one that's loaded hotter than hell) you can zing a 230-grain bullet at around 900 FPS. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't need a pistol round to travel any faster than that, and what can I say, I like my bullets the opposite of how I like most other things...big and heavy.
Why shoot 230 gr in +P? In lab tests and police shooting histories the 185 gr +P and 230 gr normal velocity JHP both have better stopping power. If someone really needs a citation, I can dig one up. Too much penetration is just as bad as too little (so to speak). A bullet can be too fast for it's weight and shape. Essentially, the bullet punches right through the body without transferring all of its energy. Lots of energy goes in, but some of it spills out the back.
I find my accuracy is not as good with +P because of the greater recoil. Here's another reason to shoot 230 gr JHP at standard velocity, you can target practice with 230 gr FMJ. They are cheap, but you get the same ballistics and recoil as with the expensive JHPs. Finally, your tool will last longer and fire more reliably with standard velocity ammo.
I already posted pics of my 1911 in another thread.
pdx
HSM Pilot
Some are designed that way too. 9mm FMJ is designed for penetration. Over-penetration of a human body is normal for that bullet (and others).
Just food for thought
Believe it or not, this helps make my point. The PROPER amount of penetration is essential. The 9mm FMJ doesn't over penetrate, it provides a lethal amount of penetration. A 9mm hollow point wouldn't penetrate deeply enough unless it was a hot load, such as the 115 gr +P+ JHP.
Every time I read articles about the 9, it seems like there is lots of passionate discussion about what load is most lethal. I avoid the whole problem by carrying my .45 Auto. If I wanted the advantages of a 9, I would go for a .357 SIG. There seems to be more consensus from the experts.
Mmm, incorrect.
First of all, 115gr is widely regarded as too light for 9mm. The 127gr +P+ load or the 147gr P load are excellent performers. They are ON PAR with a 230gr JHP. Believe it.
9mm, .40, .45... it doesn't matter. In a QUALITY JHP, they perform nearly identically.
Now, bring a rifle if you want some real energy
pdx
HSM Pilot
This is exactly the type of debate I'm talking about. I understand physics pretty well, but there is more to consider than just kinetic energy and other easily quantified factors. All I can do is read what experts have written. What one regards as "too light," another claims to be ideal. Different jello experiments show different results, and every field shooting is different. That's why I love the .45. There are many years of real world data that confirm that it works well. I don't care if it's considered the "best" right now - it works, and 99% of the experts agree.
No, I won't. Not yet anyway. I'm not saying the 9 is bad. I certainly wouldn't want to get shot by one. I'm just saying my confidence in the 9mm is less than my confidence in the .45.
?? That doesn't even make sense.
Now, bring a rifle if you want some real energy
Agreed. I'm still trying to figure out how to carry one in my pants.
Of real world shootings, not jello tests, not scientific ballistic data, actual people being shot and sometimes killed, quality 9mm, .40, and .45 JHPs performed nearly identically. We're talking 96-98% one-shot-stops fired into the chest. Now, of course you can't go off of one-stop-shots in real life, but that's glaring evidence that amongst handgun cartridges, in quality bullets, they are all nearly equal. The old .45 vs 9mm debate is a misleading one. It's almost ALWAYS based on 9mm FMJ, which IS a weak stopper... but it does do what it was designed to do... penetrate. It's not a cut and dry debate like some people say. Ballistic gel from the "expert", "expert" gun writers in magazines, etc... they can say what they want... on paper.... but with actual human shootings... you're not going to go wrong on either.
The true, no sh!t true assessment is shot placement. A .45 JHP in the arm isn't doing you very good... if you put your bullets where they need to be, well... all else being equal, they should work. This is disbarring chemical enhancement on the bad guy's part. Plenty of people have been hit multiple times with RIFLE bullets and survived. Will to fight, will to survive, and shot placement. You can argue the difference between .355 inches and .45 inches all day.
I have a .45, a .40, a 9mm, a .357 magnum, etc etc etc. My 9mm is STILL my go-to gun. Why? I can shoot the most accurate, I can control it the best, I can fire it the fastest accurately, and I have confidence in the ammunition that I use.
I'm not saying you should go to 9mm. I don't care if you use .45. If that's your choice, good on you.
That sounds like a personal problem...