-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Kobe Bryant Helo Incident
- Thread starter bubblehead
- Start date
Still not following how an IFR rated pilot crashed in to a hill. Was it a case of him wanting to stay within VFR rules for the filed flight plan or was he not able to read his radar or other? We it have been illegal or other if he just pulled up to a somewhat higher altitude and use his instruments to avoid the terrain or would this have resulted in him potentially colliding with another aircraft?
NM.. Answered my own question based on some comments:
Some are even questioning how experienced the pilot was with IFR.
NM.. Answered my own question based on some comments:
Some are even questioning how experienced the pilot was with IFR.
Last edited:
Things happen fast when you get pinched between low clouds and terrain.
I hadn't thought of it like your analogy with the bear, but that's actually not a bad way to think about that aspect of VFR-into-IMC.
The video link that @JTS11 posted is a pretty smart interpretation. Maybe the author got everything right or maybe he got a few things wrong; we'll see what the investigation comes up with when they put together all of the pieces of the puzzle (at least all of the pieces that can be found). Aside from this accident, it's a good general explanation of a lot of similar accidents. Keep in mind how much the fog and low clouds would sap your SA, compared to the crystal clear google earth imagery.
Reposting that b/c I edited my post. The bear analogy is that there is a guy carrying a gun and running from a bear in the forest. The guy does not want to shoot the bear because he does not have a permit.
I get that but from my layman's seat, if you are IFR licensed and experienced, fog and visibility should not matter? Should it? You have a freaking radar and other instruments to fly with, No? Otherwise, how do pilots fly at night with no visual reference to ground?
I’m not sure what you think RADAR does. And no, I doubt that helicopter had one.
bubblehead - Just because you are IFR qual'd doesn't mean you can instantly switch from VFR to flying an IFR flight plan as soon as you fly into the clouds. An IFR flight plan means you are following a very specific path at specific altitudes etc, and that plan has been filed and ATC is actively controlling your flight. If you are raging around in the mountains VFR and all of a sudden find yourself in IMC, you've screwed yourself.
You can start flying instruments in the clouds right away (vertigo notwithstanding) which will enable you to fly a specific altitude/attitude/heading, but unless you know exactly where you are and where the mountains are you are still screwed.
You can start flying instruments in the clouds right away (vertigo notwithstanding) which will enable you to fly a specific altitude/attitude/heading, but unless you know exactly where you are and where the mountains are you are still screwed.
Looks that way. It was a Sikorsky S-76B and did not have TAWS.
Probably rating the quality of box lunches on each ship. I swear, every time we did RLQs or DLQs, two things would happen: RAST would break and we'd get a call up to the bridge to the tune of "Hey, you guys got any of them box lunches?" I assumed this is what the pilot looked like:
Forbes is reporting that the company is VMC/VFR only.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremy...er-crash-wasnt-allowed-to-fly-by-instruments/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremy...er-crash-wasnt-allowed-to-fly-by-instruments/
You are dead on.
I'm still trying to understand what looks like a precipitous descent priot to impact. As some have suggested, perhaps an attempt to to a quick 180 and get out of the clouds, but it seems like a very aggressive move if you don't know what's below you or around you.
That was our club accident, pilot and wife. Pilot was IFR-qualified, but out of 6 month currency. Filed IFR, but then didn’t activate it after engine start. Tower asked him about it, as it was in the system, but he said he’d go VFR. Weather was 1000’, we live in a valley, he tried to sneak over a plateau. Ran out of clear air going up a valley, tried climbing and turning, hit the ridge in the clouds. Perfectly good airplane. Two kids left without parents (18 & 22). Ugh.
possibly he was descending quickly to stay below the layer and ran out of room
what i don't get is, being a helo, why did he have to keep up his speed? i saw somewhere that he was still going 180 kts or so.
in know what that feels like in a jet, but in a helo can't you just slow down and maybe stop before going into IMC?
i don't know how quickly that helo can go from 180 to zero, maybe he tried?
what i don't get is, being a helo, why did he have to keep up his speed? i saw somewhere that he was still going 180 kts or so.
in know what that feels like in a jet, but in a helo can't you just slow down and maybe stop before going into IMC?
i don't know how quickly that helo can go from 180 to zero, maybe he tried?
Again, a radar doesn't do anything for you. It's for weather, not terrain.
If after going IMC (either in a turn or starting a turn after entering), it's easy to get discombobulated and experience Spacial D (and let's please stop using the term "vertigo"). If he wasn't aware of continuing to input a bank command, he could have over-banked while looking elsewhere and wouldn't have been aware of it. Hit whatever that critical bank angle is for that power setting, and down you come, very quickly. Nobody is going to willingly enter a descent rate in excess of an auto in those conditions, no matter how experienced or inexperienced, but it's easy to get there with distraction.
The big thing I think "we" are all missing is how was the helo equipped. Did it have SAS (probably)? Did it have an autopilot (probably)? How good was that autopilot? Just because one has an auto pilot doesn't mean it works in all 4 axisisisis.
There are huge swaths of the civilian helicopter world that have IFR-rated pilots who have little to no actual IMC time. I'm not saying that's the case here, but it's possible. To see that the company was operating VFR-only probably means they do very little IMC training. It's possible they may only do it once a year on the checkride (though again, who knows the specifics). If I wasn't in an IFR program, that's all I'd get with the job I fly now.