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Kerry and Nader

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Fly Navy said:
No offense, but this is the worst argument for France. The Germans used to be a Nazi state, we don't treat them as such anymore. That was only 60 some years ago. France recognizing us was over 200 years ago.
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Well, if helping to win our War for Independence wasn't enough, they did stand toe to toe with the Germans from 1914 until 1918. Remember, we did not get much of an army over there until the last year when both the Germans and the French were exhausted. And yes, I have been to Bellau Wood to visit the battlefield.
 
Patmack18 said:
Ya... but we beat the Germans half a world away... thats like us not being able to defeat Canada. Not to mention they ran up the same valley for the 6th time in 200 years, on their way in... gee... couldn't see that one coming could ya France?
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Check your history, the Ardennes strategy was a new one and most conventional wisdom a the time held that you could not drive armor through there. The original German strategy had them doing there main push through the north like 1914 but the plan was compromised when a staff officer with the plans accidently landed in Belguim a week before the planned invasion in Jan, 1940. Here is a link describing the invasion planning: http://gi.grolier.com/wwii/wwii_4.html

The story about the two gus who landed in Belguim by accident is actually a bit of funny one, I think they were stopped from burning the plans by a Belgian policeman on a bike. Can't find a link to it though.
 
46Driver said:
Well, if helping to win our War for Independence wasn't enough, they did stand toe to toe with the Germans from 1914 until 1918. Remember, we did not get much of an army over there until the last year when both the Germans and the French were exhausted. And yes, I have been to Bellau Wood to visit the battlefield.
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France lost more people percantage wise than any other western ally in WWI. Keep in mind that the figure is 11% for the entire population, not the young men who served (comparatively, there were not many civilian casualties like on WWII). It was devastating to the prime workers of their society and depressed the national psyche for a long time. The following is the last paragragh on this webpage: http://www.richthofen.com/ww1sum/

"Instead of supplying a list of losses, which are difficult to fathom, we thought it appropriate to mention the percentage of a country's population directly afflicted. During the course of World War One, eleven percent (11%) of France's entire population were killed or wounded! Eight percent (8%) of Great Britain's population were killed or wounded, and nine percent (9%) of Germany's pre-war population were killed or wounded! The United States, which did not enter the land war in strength until 1918, suffered one-third of one percent (0.37%) of its population killed or wounded."

While I am no fan of their current foreign policy, the French suffered plenty during the 20th century to protect themselves as well as freedom and liberty.
 
46Driver said:
Well, if helping to win our War for Independence wasn't enough, they did stand toe to toe with the Germans from 1914 until 1918. Remember, we did not get much of an army over there until the last year when both the Germans and the French were exhausted. And yes, I have been to Bellau Wood to visit the battlefield.
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Oh I know they fought hard in WWI. All I'm saying is that their behavior today shouldn't be excused just because 200 years ago they recognized us as a nation. Yes, we should of course be eternally grateful, but at the same time, they damn well should be eternally greatful to us and the rest of the Allied forces in WWII.

Now their defeat in WWII...pretty embarassing. Even the Polish tried to hold on fiercly, and they were fighting with horses still.
 
Since threads such as these have a spiraling to infinity tendency... thought I'd point this out.

And remember always, insofar as public utterances are concerned, an American soldier has no politics and espouses no political party or cause.
--The Marine Officer's Guide

Just something to consider since you're not going to change anyone's mind on a message board.
 
Fly Navy said:
Oh I know they fought hard in WWI. All I'm saying is that their behavior today shouldn't be excused just because 200 years ago they recognized us as a nation. Yes, we should of course be eternally grateful, but at the same time, they damn well should be eternally greatful to us and the rest of the Allied forces in WWII.

Now their defeat in WWII...pretty embarassing. Even the Polish tried to hold on fiercly, and they were fighting with horses still.
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They are grateful, it does not mean they have agree with everything we do. And read some detailed history of the offensive, while a lot of the leadership and some soldiers did poorly, many units fought bravely. The largest resistance movement in modern history helped the Allies enormously in the liberation of France. Just trying to recognize the sacrafice everyone made.
 
squeeze said:
Since threads such as these have a spiraling to infinity tendency... thought I'd point this out.

And remember always, insofar as public utterances are concerned, an American soldier has no politics and espouses no political party or cause.
--The Marine Officer's Guide

Just something to consider since you're not going to change anyone's mind on a message board.
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Good point, maybe I will shut up now.
 
squeeze said:
Since threads such as these have a spiraling to infinity tendency... thought I'd point this out.

And remember always, insofar as public utterances are concerned, an American soldier has no politics and espouses no political party or cause.
--The Marine Officer's Guide

Just something to consider since you're not going to change anyone's mind on a message board.
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Good point.
 
as an advocate of satan. ... .

Republicans have voted down democratic bills to increase pay benefits for military. Chew on that. I'd leave you with specifics but I know some of you will enjoy the research (May 4, 2004, if memory serves). I thoroughly enjoy listening & reading both liberal and conservatively political slants. I find it thought provoking. I think some military persons get so wrapped up with their anti-liberal views that they begin believing their own bs and feel everything is a liberal consipracy. Be a better republican and expand your reading. ..I think it's important to try to understand two powerful views on a subject so we can justify when we have to bomb the living **** out of something/someone. . . ... . ..just a thought.

bash a liberal in the face? . If I was a gambling man . . .sometime during your military career you will have a boss who's a liberal democrat. ..and work with the 20 to 40 % of democrats in the military. They're not idiots. .I've got a nice laundry list of idiotic ideals (/policy points) from both major parties. . . I'd be happy to chat with you all about the specifics, but it'll have to be in person when I know you've had as much to drink as I.

Squeeze--you're spot on. . . or as Viper put it:

"Now, we don't make policy here, gentlemen. Elected officials, civilians, do that. We are the instruments of that policy. And although we're not at war, we must always act as though we are at war."
 
What do you guys think of Kerry rolling up to Reagan's casket in his dramatic motorcade, then side-stepping the line to go right up to the coffin. Does anyone else find something wrong with this?

I can see Kerry's game plan right now: Fake Right... Run Left
 
UInavy said:
hmm.........
the Silver Star misses you already
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OBVIOUSLY. . . . . . no comments on the political parties holding hands while we lay down grazing fire?

How's my amy?
 
VetteMuscle that was an excellent crack on Kerry. Fake left, run right lol. That is his favorite play out of his playbook.
 
I was listening to Rush Limbaugh last week and he was talking about the results of that very same poll. Only the poll (which I didn't see in your attachement) went on to say something like among registered democrats 86% to 6% for Kerry, among republicans 92% to 4% for Bush, and among independents 45% to 42% in favor of Bush. There is also a slight majority of registered Republicans in the country. So from the numbers I just dropped you would think Bush would have the lead. I heard another guy on Fox News talking about how pollers discriminately call inside of bigger cities (there are more democrats inside most bigger cities). This is one theory on why the poll numbers don't add up. Also read my prior post on this thread. Read about how I said that at the very least ZOGBY numbers are fudged, and how the polls showed back in 2002 the democrats sweeping the election. Remember what happened? JUST THE OPPOSITE! I am confident that people do not want to vote another Jimmy Carter into office. Don't sweat it, but DO vote!
 
I have no idea if the polls represent anything or not but here are some more I found including Fox.

Poll Date John Kerry George Bush
Fox News June 9 45 43
LA Times June 9 51 44
Gallup June 8 50 44
Zogby June 7 44 42
ARG June 3 48 46
 
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