It's the small things that often impress--Blue Angel #1

[BigWorm]

Here is another random drinking conversation - so there I was, lying on the couch watching the discovery channel. One of the blue angel specials was on, I couldn't help but to notice that the token Marine had a khaki cover. Except that his was starched and pressed, while his Navy brethren had the little dimple in the back. What is the purpose behind the dimple? Talking around, I heard it was a tail hook thing, and if so, why do helo guys sport the dimple? Is that sort of like the SWO wearing brown shoes?

 

[Gatordev]

Here is another random drinking conversation - so there I was, lying on the couch watching the discovery channel. One of the blue angel specials was on, I couldn't help but to notice that the token Marine had a khaki cover. Except that his was starched and pressed, while his Navy brethren had the little dimple in the back. What is the purpose behind the dimple? Talking around, I heard it was a tail hook thing, and if so, why do helo guys sport the dimple? Is that sort of like the SWO wearing brown shoes?

I'm sure someone like A4s or Catmando or heyJoe can give a more accurate assesment, but I always thought it was a carry over from the WWII days or earlier. I knew a VF-213 guy that wore a tie-tac sized set of wings on his pisscutter where the officer crest was supposed to be. Again, a throwback to WWII days. Kind of like the brown shoes/boots. I never wore the dimple until after I was winged, but sported the brown shoes the day after I got commissioned. Just my little obsessive complusive thing, I guess.

 

[Fly Navy]

I think there was a discussion on it on the forum sometime. I believe the dimple dates back to when pilots would fly with their covers on and the headsets would squash them.

 

[mules83]

I think there was a discussion on it on the forum sometime. I believe the dimple dates back to when pilots would fly with their covers on and the headsets would squash them.

That is what i was told by the pilot/nfo staff here at the unit. They all do it.

 

[nittany03]

That is what i was told by the pilot/nfo staff here at the unit. They all do it.

Some of us are forced to . . . the shape of my head puts one in my cover unless I starch the crap out of it, which I don't always have the time to do.

 

[BigWorm]

I was hoping for a little bit of a fight, or to get some blood boiling. But it looks like it may really be a P-3 thing.

 

[squeeze]

I say just bring back the tilt to the pisscutter. It's ok by the regs.

 

[Fly Navy]

I say just bring back the tilt to the pisscutter. It's ok by the regs.

I always thought that looked hot. Especially with the combo cover, when you could make it all puffy.

 

[A4sForever]

I think there was a discussion on it on the forum sometime. I believe the dimple dates back to when pilots would fly with their covers on and the headsets would squash them.

BINGO!!! Check out/search the "Dip in the cover" thread ... ... especially post #15 ('cause I have a vested interest in it).

(*edit* in case that's too hard ....)

..... Current, NIB example, depicted w/no dimple.

We are talking khaki "garrison" caps here, right?? A.K.A. "overseas caps" or "piss cutters" in the Navy ??? The ones that became popular with US troops on overseas deployments, post-SpanAm and WW1?? Sadly, they originated --- with the French --- and when the traditional "combination cover" took up too much space and was considered too hot in many tropical/sub-tropical climes ... the garrison cap was born in U.S. service.

..... WW2 Khaki version worn more "salty" w/piping to denote branch of service (Army).


This is what I got from my "predecessors": the "dimple" or "dip" supposedly originated in the Patron (VP) community ... in the 1930's when enclosed cockpits came about and the very uncomfortable headsets, known as "C-clamps" were worn instead of leather or fabric flying helmets. The garrison cap/piss cutter provided some padding relief and cushioning from a C-clamp on a long mission --- and now all S.H. Naval Aviators sport the "look" -- complete with "dimple" -- usually in the rear, however some misguided souls have theirs in the front. (BTW, if you are a Naval Aviator and aren't S.H. .... well, you need to go back to S.H. skool).

I would suppose that's why many Marines (well, who knows with USMC ... ) and Zoomies "don't" dimple ... USMC garrison caps were introduced during WW1 but not too many Marines flew multi-engine/multi-crew aircraft " B-I-T-D". Army Air Corps (pre-Air Force) did not have garrison caps early on -- they wore their combination covers with headsets. Thus came the "100-mission crush" look -- still favored and accomplished today in the airlines by the simple expediency of removing the shaping "ring" from your cover ... and then dragging it behind your ESCALADE or something similar to "age" it ...

(Side note: when we have to wear "C-clamps" these days in the 747 ... we usually acquire our "padding" from the upper-deck head (lavatory) in the "amenities" drawer -- usually provided by the Tampax company. Don't knock it if you haven't tried it -- it works .... no Tampax company in 1930's Naval Aviation, though .... ) :captain_1

 

[BigWorm]

I would suppose that's why many Marines (well, who knows with USMC ...

I would tell you, but as the Great Santini said - "We don't want you to get to know us...We like being an enigma - like a #$%@$"

 

[Fly Navy]

"100-mission crush" look

I love that look, totally S.H.

 

[AllAmerican75]

I love that look, totally S.H.

My grandfather had the "100 mission crush." I always thought it was cool looking.

 

[zab1001]

I think the reason a lot of USMC types don't "crush" is because the green pisscutter is made of a different material. I wear it with my Av Greens, and it just doesn't sit right when I "dimple" it. I gave up, it just sits very rigid. Luckily, I don't really have to wear a cover much except at Quarters (EVERY morning...). I've used the same wash khaki cover with bags for the last 3 years and that thing comes out of my leg pocket pre-crushed, even after washing.

 

[Catmando]

ABSOLUTELY !!! .... he's Pete Pettigrew -- VF-114 Aardvark MIG master --- the same Pete who loves the sound of his own voice --- loves to stand waaa-a-a-a-a-a-ay too long in front of the mirror while shaving and/or doing his prematurely gray hair ... my first Wing LSO when I was a trainee ---

Yeah ... those were the days ....

Yup. That's gotta be the same Pete Pettigrew that I knew – he never met a microphone, camera, or mirror he didn't like. [greaty guy, though]

MiG-killer Pete was one of the handful of guys who cranked up the original Top Gun. He went on to be CO of one of the Reserve Miramar squadrons, and later made Admiral. He was active in ALPA, locally and nationally, and was an ALPA Executive Vice President at one time. I had the pleasure of fighting him in ACM on a number of occasions over the years; and yes, he was every bit as good as he thought he was.

Pete was "technical advisor" to the Top Gun movie. Not only did he insert himself into the movie as Kelly McGillis's 'older' WOXOF date, he also inserted his call-sign "Viper" into the movie. I figured I would have been a better fit for that cameo roll, since I wasn't, nor did I look as old as Pete then. (But next to that tall Kelly McGillis, I might have needed a box to stand on like Tom Cruise needed – although mine wouldn't need be as high as his.)

Yeah… those were the days….

 

[A4sForever]

Pete was one of the reasons I quit PSA and went to Braniff. The first day of class @ PSA -- a.k.a. "Poor Sailor Airline" --- he was one of the "wise men" guys I tapped for guidance when the offer from Big Idiot (BI ... Braniff International ) was sitting on my desk table after lunch. PSA had about 350 pilots then and I think I knew @ half of them when I reported for the first day of class --- the ultimate Navy Flying Club. Oh, well ... hindsight.

I think Pete was at one time the CO of the Saints --- ??? I never flew against him when I was in Dallas, but we shared some Dets. Again, he was my original "trainer" on the platform. He and Dave Carroll --- later 'Blues CO. Pete was the fighter Wing LSO -- Carroll the attack LSO. A good guy, also --- Dave looked like "a Kennedy" when that was still a "good thing".



VC-13 (later VFC-13) SAINTS in a max-effort "surge" over San Dog.

see --- TA4-J's can make good Adversaries, too . It all depends on who is drivin' and how he's drivin' ....