Is SWO Really That Bad?

[JWL]

I see a lot of negative comments about SWO here. I get that different groups or even branches of the military like to poke each other for fun. But, is being a SWO really a horrible life?

Is it worth it to go SWO if you simply want to gain leadership experience at an early age and just do 4 or 5 years?

Is SWO generally better for developing early leadership skills than say, aviation?

Finally, what is the difference between nuclear and non-nuclear SWO, please?

Thanks.

 

[Renegade One]

No.

No.

Conceivably...you'll gain Division Officer responsibilities several years earlier in most cases. But leadership comes in many forms and environments.

Both have SWO as heir "warfare specialty", but one has been through Nuclear Power School and will have both shipboard and shore tours oriented around reactors...but not all. But the basics of SWO-dom as a warfare specialty will remain the same...fight the ship, drive the ship, steam the plant, take care of your folks. Many quals required to earn that pin.

Caveat: Just my $.02.

 

[Mirage]

Everyone has their own personality and idea of what makes a job good or bad. SWO's get leadership experience right off the bat, whereas pilots/NFO's wait a couple years. SWO's also get more travel experience (via deployment) much earlier on, and typically pull into way cooler ports than pilots on aircraft carriers. Many people also really enjoy driving the ship and doing all the drills/training associated with that life (firefighting and the like). However, you'll work longer hours, sleep less, and have a higher chance of disliking your fellow JO's compared with aviation. Only you can decide how that all sounds. I've met plenty of SWO's who enjoyed it, and plenty who did not. No matter what, though, 4 years will go by much faster than you'd think, and you can move on to the next thing with valuable (and marketable) experience.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Is SWO generally better for developing early leadership skills than say, aviation?

Finally, what is the difference between nuclear and non-nuclear SWO, please?

Thanks.

A SWO officer will get an opportunity to lead a division earlier than an Aviation officer, that doesn't mean they will be better at developing leadership skills than an aviation officer as it is up to the individual officer to take in and utilize the tools at hand.

SWO-N vs SWO below is a rough path

SWO-N: commission, DIVO on non nuke ship for about 24 months to earn SWO pin, nuke pipeline for 12 months, DIVO on CVN for about 24 months, shore tour 24 months (something related to nuclear), Dept Head school, DH tour on non nuke ship for 18 months, back to CVN for PA tour (spot promote to LCDR) for 24 months, shore tour (often inspection team) for 24 months, XO non nuke 18 months, CO non nuke 18 months, back to CVN for Reactor Officer for 24 months, then shore for 24 months and probably last command at sea to follow.

I think the conventional tour is similar just without nuclear school and the shore duties are more varied.

The thing that can derail a nuke officer is if they go to PNEO (prospective nuclear engineering officer) school and fail their board the first time up, I don't know if it is written or unwritten but what I have seen and have been told by senior nuke officers is that if a nuke fails their first PNEO board that they will no be considered for a RO position, and by default that will derail them for XO/CO afloat, they could still hold an Assistant RO position.

 

[MGoBrew11]

Dude, don't go SWO if you can be in aviation.

The lifestyles are completely different. As a SWO you are attached to a ship that has a watch rotation. The rotation lengths vary based on manning and how the ship's front office set it up, but I've heard anywhere from four to eight days. When you're on duty, you spend the night on the ship. You're sleeping on the ship one night a week at least (2x if it is a four shift rotation).

Also as a SWO, when the ship gets underway, you get underway. Guess what ships are designed to do? Get underway.

Contrast this with aviation where as a junior guy, you probably stand duty once per week....rarely two times in a week. You have a duty phone that you take home. You do not necessarily get underway every time the ship does. Workups and long cruises only.

Oh, and pilots get flight pay.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Dude, don't go SWO if you can be in aviation.

The lifestyles are completely different. As a SWO you are attached to a ship that has a watch rotation. The rotation lengths vary based on manning and how the ship's front office set it up, but I've heard anywhere from four to eight days. When you're on duty, you spend the night on the ship. You're sleeping on the ship one night a week at least (2x if it is a four shift rotation).

Also as a SWO, when the ship gets underway, you get underway. Guess what ships are designed to do? Get underway.

Contrast this with aviation where as a junior guy, you probably stand duty once per week....rarely two times in a week. You have a duty phone that you take home. You do not necessarily get underway every time the ship does. Workups and long cruises only.

Oh, and pilots get flight pay.

Good point on the duty part, as a nuke I have seen first sea tour SWO-N's on 3-5 section duty, not to mention shift work when testing is going on.

 

[MGoBrew11]

Good point on the duty part, as a nuke I have seen first sea tour SWO-N's on 3-5 section duty, not to mention shift work when testing is going on.

Yeah, and as you get a little later in your tour in aviation as a JO you have duty 1-2x per month, again with a duty phone.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Yeah, and as you get a little later in your tour in aviation as a JO you have duty 1-2x per month, again with a duty phone.

even O-4's stand duty as nukes every 6-8 days.

 

[MGoBrew11]

even O-4's stand duty as nukes every 6-8 days.

To the OP: Case in point.

 

[JWL]

No.

No.

Conceivably...you'll gain Division Officer responsibilities several years earlier in most cases. But leadership comes in many forms and environments.

Both have SWO as heir "warfare specialty", but one has been through Nuclear Power School and will have both shipboard and shore tours oriented around reactors...but not all. But the basics of SWO-dom as a warfare specialty will remain the same...fight the ship, drive the ship, steam the plant, take care of your folks. Many quals required to earn that pin.

Caveat: Just my $.02.

Thanks, Renegade. Happy holidays.

A SWO officer will get an opportunity to lead a division earlier than an Aviation officer, that doesn't mean they will be better at developing leadership skills than an aviation officer as it is up to the individual officer to take in and utilize the tools at hand.

SWO-N vs SWO below is a rough path

SWO-N: commission, DIVO on non nuke ship for about 24 months to earn SWO pin, nuke pipeline for 12 months, DIVO on CVN for about 24 months, shore tour 24 months (something related to nuclear), Dept Head school, DH tour on non nuke ship for 18 months, back to CVN for PA tour (spot promote to LCDR) for 24 months, shore tour (often inspection team) for 24 months, XO non nuke 18 months, CO non nuke 18 months, back to CVN for Reactor Officer for 24 months, then shore for 24 months and probably last command at sea to follow.

I think the conventional tour is similar just without nuclear school and the shore duties are more varied.

The thing that can derail a nuke officer is if they go to PNEO (prospective nuclear engineering officer) school and fail their board the first time up, I don't know if it is written or unwritten but what I have seen and have been told by senior nuke officers is that if a nuke fails their first PNEO board that they will no be considered for a RO position, and by default that will derail them for XO/CO afloat, they could still hold an Assistant RO position.

Thanks. What is RO, please?

If the nuke path seems to be restricted and fraught with risks, why do people do it?

 

[JWL]

Dude, don't go SWO if you can be in aviation.

The lifestyles are completely different. As a SWO you are attached to a ship that has a watch rotation. The rotation lengths vary based on manning and how the ship's front office set it up, but I've heard anywhere from four to eight days. When you're on duty, you spend the night on the ship. You're sleeping on the ship one night a week at least (2x if it is a four shift rotation).

Also as a SWO, when the ship gets underway, you get underway. Guess what ships are designed to do? Get underway.

Contrast this with aviation where as a junior guy, you probably stand duty once per week....rarely two times in a week. You have a duty phone that you take home. You do not necessarily get underway every time the ship does. Workups and long cruises only.

Oh, and pilots get flight pay.

Thanks, Brew. When you say 'stand duty', is that standing watch for hours at a time?

I am of the understanding that even a SWO ensign is in charge of a division of sailors. As JG or full LT aviator, are you in charge of any sailors at all?
If the answer is no, perhaps the whole 'leadership at an early age' is overrated, and is it fun to simply fly for the Navy?

 

[Python]

Thanks, Brew. When you say 'stand duty', is that standing watch for hours at a time?

I am of the understanding that even a SWO ensign is in charge of a division of sailors. As JG or full LT aviator, are you in charge of any sailors at all?
If the answer is no, perhaps the whole 'leadership at an early age' is overrated, and is it fun to simply fly for the Navy?

As a jg or LT aviator, you will be a division officer and lead sailors at some point. Usually a JO job shift happens every 8-10 months (but that varies). Therefore, you may only be a DIVO for those 8-10 months in your first 5 years in the Navy, although sometimes aviators will cycle through a second DIVO job.
In my personal opinion, your last statement is right. “Leadership at an early age” is overrated and it really is fun to simply fly for the Navy. Others may disagree, that’s fine.

 

[Gatordev]

As a jg or LT aviator, you will be a division officer and lead sailors at some point. Usually a JO job shift happens every 8-10 months (but that varies). Therefore, you may only be a DIVO for those 8-10 months in your first 5 years in the Navy, although sometimes aviators will cycle through a second DIVO job.

This can really vary depending on community (type of squadron) and method of deployment. With more people in a squadron, you may move from DivO job to DivO job more often. Area of responsibility can change if only some of your squadron deploys at one time, too. Python's point is still valid, you will generally get at least one DivO job your first tour, and depending on where you go, can get more leadership opportunities in your second tour.

 

[Python]

Should have clarified. My perspective is from a single seat VFA squadron. Two seat squadrons, as well non fighter platforms, have more officers. Thus they arrange their ground jobs and rotation schedule a little differently.

 

[Pags]

Dude, don't go SWO if you can be in aviation.

The lifestyles are completely different. As a SWO you are attached to a ship that has a watch rotation. The rotation lengths vary based on manning and how the ship's front office set it up, but I've heard anywhere from four to eight days. When you're on duty, you spend the night on the ship. You're sleeping on the ship one night a week at least (2x if it is a four shift rotation).

Also as a SWO, when the ship gets underway, you get underway. Guess what ships are designed to do? Get underway.

Contrast this with aviation where as a junior guy, you probably stand duty once per week....rarely two times in a week. You have a duty phone that you take home. You do not necessarily get underway every time the ship does. Workups and long cruises only.

Oh, and pilots get flight pay.

How you stand duty will depend on your squadron. At my first squadron we had to stay on base for 24hrs. If the sked was done you could go to the BOQ and rack out. But your duty day was usually 0600-0300 by the time the last flight finished and all the stuff got cleaned up. Then back to squadron by 0545 the next morning to make coffee, start the day, and wait for your relief to show up. If it was a weekend you still had to stay on base but could hit the gym, pool, NEX, etc. CDO in port was actually easier because you had a whole duty section to help out and you really just managed the effort and provided oversight (lots of walking around). Oh, and people weren't flying until 0200 so unless something bad happened you could eat dinner, take the 8s, and then go to bed at a reasonable hour. If things were quiet you could get a good night of sleep. Of course there's always the terror/hope of the emergency sortie when you and your watch section get to take Mom out all by yourself. At the squadron there's no worry about needing to drive the building around or that it might float away.