Which commands and agencies?
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Iran Detains 10 U.S. Navy Personnel
- Thread starter HH-60H
- Start date
Just inside the beltway gossip.
Yeah, no doubt
I am just thinking back to the CO of VINCENNES and the aircraft commander of the EP-3 that landed on Hainan Island. In both of those cases I think political considerations may have trumped fairness in how those men were dealt with.
What do you think was done due to political considerations for the AC of the EP-3?
I believe he was awarded a DFC (or another prestigious medal). I think that although he violated the "Don't give up the ship" mantra and compromised incredibly sensitive technology, he was awarded a medal to help the US save face in the wake of a tense international incident.
Can someone chime in and remind me why that crew didnt just ditch in international waters? Or abandon the aircraft and bailout under controlled conditions in international waters? I assume P-3 cews had a protocol for this sort of thing where the PPC remains at the controls while everyone bails out.
Ok pardon my lack of research - after reading the details of the incident this was clearly a kick ass piece of airmanship.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident
Awarded the DFC and by all accounts well deserved.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident
Awarded the DFC and by all accounts well deserved.
He saved the crew and in peacetime that is the primary goal as far as I am concerned.
He was awarded both a DFC and an MSM, the DFC for his in flight actions and the MSM for his actions after. He also got selected as one of People magazine's 'Most Beautiful People' that year too.
The protocol was to allow the Aircraft and Mission Commanders to decide what to do in a decision like this. This was not an unknown or unexamined scenario so it didn't surprise me that they did what they did.
As I have mentioned on this board before I was in the squadron until just 4 months prior to this incident and firmly believe the decision the AC/MC made was the right one. The options were to;
1- Ditch - No one has ever ditched an EP-3 which is much heavier and has twice the crew of a regular P-3 there was serious debate as to how the antennas on the bottom would affect ditching. Keep in mind there has only been one P-3 ditching where everyone survived. They also did not know the status of the flaps which they did not want to risk putting down and having split flaps, and with no flaps ditching would have been 30 knots faster and much riskier.
2- Bailout - Spread them all over the SCS with no nearby SAR, not all would have been recovered.
3- Divert - Approximately 2 or more hours away from 'friendly' airfields with 3 or maybe 2 engines. A dicey prospect even in the best of conditions.
In my firm opinion nothing on that plane was worth anyone's life, period.
This is what the whole discussion of the EP-3 comes down to. We happen to disagree.
I'm sure that landing a plane with half of a wing required a great deal of skill. I just don't think that we should award medals to people for compromising a shit ton of extremely sensitive technology to a foreign power. If we had gone to war with China in the years immediately following the EP-3 incident, the number of lives lost due to their compromise could have far outweighed that crew.
Agree Flash, but there were checklist issues. The issues were not so much about crew behavior, they were more about compromised assets. The EP-3 incident is old news, and that game along that coast has been going on for a long....long time, and that was far from the first aircraft we've lost there. Just the first one with a 24 hour new cycle.
Once nice thing about having been in the unit was I am familiar with what was compromised and it remains my firm belief that nothing on that plane was worth a single person's life. Remember, it was a Navy plane so obviously filled with latest in up to date tech!
We are each victims of our own experience. I too am familiar with what was compromised. I guess what a EP-3 guy values as critical gear may not be what others care about and vice versa.
Let's not re-fight this. It is what it is. And any issue has been taken care of.
Hey, fair enough. Just wanted to point out that there remain multiple, valid points of view on the EP-3 collision, as there are with the VINCENNES shoot down and this latest RIVRON capture.
I would hate to point out the obvious but nowhere near as familiar as I am, you didn't spend 1500 hours flying them. And don't damn me with faint praise either, I know my work well enough.
Haha ok....