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In my situation, should I rule out pilot/NFO and focus on Cryptologic Warfare?

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padre

Member
Good evening,

I've seen this place recommended on reddit a lot and I really need some advice so I thought this would be the place to ask.

I'm 30 years old with 10 years TAFMS and currently an E-7 Arabic Linguist AGR in the ANG. I've got an excellent PT score, never had a performance report that wasn't maxed out, my degree will be complete this December (3 more classes - registered) and I've currently got a 4.0. I've got no history of legal problems and I've had an active TS/SCI since '13.

Here are the bad parts: I was diagnosed last year with Eustachian Tube Disorder (temporary - not showing any signs of it at this time), my vision is 20/100, and I need to relearn basically all the math I've ever learned. The vision I should be able to get corrected in August or September and I'm happy to study obsessively for the ASTB for the rest of the year, especially math, but the ear thing I'm not too sure about. My recruiter seems swamped so he's taking a real wait and see approach on the ASTB but he says I'd be competitive w/ dual lang and my GPA if I did well on that and got my vision fixed.

It seems like a big gamble, though. I'll be 31 next summer, meaning I'd need an age waiver since I'd be 32+ when I went to OCS - if picked up. I'd also have to get corrective surgery for my eyes by Sep just to have a shot. Meanwhile Cryptologic Warfare seems like a very smooth transition from the careerfield I'm currently in as a Cryptologic Language Analyst. My concern about CW is that its a restrictred line officer gig and, if I understand what that means correctly, meaning I'd never be eligible for command? Also, the deployment tempo seems to be a lot less than pilot/NFO would be, and I'm very interested in getting out to sea.

I ask because I'd be able to focus a lot more on the OAR and not waste my time scheduling/undergoing eye surgery if I'm a long shot. If my chances with corrective surgery aren't that bad (assuming I do well on the ASTB), then I'm happy to swing for the fences and accept the result either way.

Thoughts?
 
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exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I would say until you take the ASTB your recruiter won't know what direction you could go. I have seen people with high GPA's not do well on the ASTB, it happens.

A waiver due to age is probable given the backlog and if you want to be a SNA you are right you would need surgery, that requires a 6 month wait until you can do a medical exam for commissioning.

In regards to your medical issue most things that can go wrong with a person are listed as "current or history of" so for that you will just need to wait and see.

When it comes to CW a high GPA will help but they strongly prefer tech degrees and strongly prefer a person to have taken calc and physics series, there have been a very few picked up without it and they tend to have a high GPA like you.

When it comes to aviation the ASTB is the most important thing, a person with a high ASTB and low gpa will get picked over a low ASTB and high GPA.

The fact you can speak languages matters nothing when going for USN officer programs unless you eventually plan on being an FAO, enlisted are the ones that translate, not officers.

You are right about deployment tempo, there have been a few CW's I kept up with I kept up with and 1 spent his entire obligation in Ft Meade, MD the other spent time in Ft Meade, MD and FL? neither left the US during their service.

The ASTB will probably help determine your path.
 
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South86

New Member
Padre, unless you get a waiver for CW you are outside of the max TIS. It is currently at 6yrs, but like others have said a technical degree and cyber certifications help out a lot. You are a restricted line officer as an 1810 but you can be in command it just is over a shore station not a ship or squadron. So no command at sea for us. Our deployment tempo is what you make of it and what route you want to go. But typically you will do 2/3yrs as a LTJG and then back out again as a LCDR for milestone if you do afloat cryptology (This is the “normal” afloat path) which will set you up for the N9/DIWC job as a CDR and possibly the IWC as a Captain. You also have NSW, Subs, and aircrew as options. I only have experience in NSW and afloat with a heavy favor to Cyber operations. I am guessing from your post you’re not in the Navy currently? If you are I would suggest working towards a Warrant package when you hit the 14yr mark. They are sea intensive for us and stay on the technical side of the house.
 
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exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
South86 said:
Padre, unless you get a waiver for CW you are outside of the max TIS. It is currently at 6yrs, but like others have said a technical degree and cyber certifications help out a lot. You are a restricted line officer as an 1810 but you can be in command it just is over a shore station not a ship or squadron. So no command at sea for us. Our deployment tempo is what you make of it and what route you want to go. But typically you will do 2/3yrs as a LTJG and then back out again as a LCDR for milestone if you do afloat cryptology (This is the “normal” afloat path) which will set you up for the N9/DIWC job as a CDR and possibly the IWC as a Captain. You also have NSW, Subs, and aircrew as options. I only have experience in NSW and afloat with a heavy favor to Cyber operations. I am guessing from your post you’re not in the Navy currently? If you are I would suggest working towards a Warrant package when you hit the 14yr mark. They are sea intensive for us and stay on the technical side of the house.
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The TIS is a good point, I normally catch those items, and per the PA is outside of the waiverable limits as well.

Did those 2 CW officers I know just get lucky so to speak in doing their tours inside the states?
 
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South86

New Member
exNavyOffRec said:
The TIS is a good point, I normally catch those items, and per the PA is outside of the waiverable limits as well.

Did those 2 CW officers I know just get lucky so to speak in doing their tours inside the states?
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Not really lucky the community is pretty pick your own destiny and hope you hit milestones. Our milestones for O4/O5 are all over the place so just depends on background and timing.
 
P

padre

Member
South86 said:
Padre, unless you get a waiver for CW you are outside of the max TIS. It is currently at 6yrs, but like others have said a technical degree and cyber certifications help out a lot. You are a restricted line officer as an 1810 but you can be in command it just is over a shore station not a ship or squadron. So no command at sea for us. Our deployment tempo is what you make of it and what route you want to go. But typically you will do 2/3yrs as a LTJG and then back out again as a LCDR for milestone if you do afloat cryptology (This is the “normal” afloat path) which will set you up for the N9/DIWC job as a CDR and possibly the IWC as a Captain. You also have NSW, Subs, and aircrew as options. I only have experience in NSW and afloat with a heavy favor to Cyber operations. I am guessing from your post you’re not in the Navy currently? If you are I would suggest working towards a Warrant package when you hit the 14yr mark. They are sea intensive for us and stay on the technical side of the house.
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I didn't realize that CW was also subject to TIS requirements. Now I need to find out if intel and things are as well... I got some good advice from someone on this forum that I should pursue Intel, Intel-SWO, and IP. I haven't checked TIS reqs but they convinced me and that's my current plan at this time.

Also, you're correct, I'm not in the Navy. I'm a MSgt in the AF.
 
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exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
padre said:
I didn't realize that CW was also subject to TIS requirements. Now I need to find out if intel and things are as well... I got some good advice from someone on this forum that I should pursue Intel, Intel-SWO, and IP. I haven't checked TIS reqs but they convinced me and that's my current plan at this time.

Also, you're correct, I'm not in the Navy. I'm a MSgt in the AF.
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Intel-SWO isn't an option for OCS
 
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surf3001x

Fully Qualified
exNavyOffRec said:
SWO-Intel isn't an OCS option either, I meant to correct your error but didn't.
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I'm curious how exactly does the SWO-* work? Attend OCS, SWO school, followed by the NOBC for your option?

Glancing at PA-108A, it seems like padre checks the boxes and shows OCS as an accession source. So he wouldn't be able to apply for SWO-intel?

Is the option something you have to redesignate for later or?
 
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exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
surf3001x said:
I'm curious how exactly does the SWO-* work? Attend OCS, SWO school, followed by the NOBC for your option?

Glancing at PA-108A, it seems like padre checks the boxes and shows OCS as an accession source. So he wouldn't be able to apply for SWO-intel?

Is the option something you have to redesignate for later or?
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Yes, OCS, do SWO to get pin, then off to whatever the - was.

You can't apply to what isn't available, just because it is on the PA doesn't mean it is available, the number of SWO-Intel from OCS over the past 10+ years was less than 5, I have only heard of 1 and then I think someone on the board knew of one as well, could have been the same person.
 
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surf3001x

Fully Qualified
Ah ok,

So quota driven - but does that completely stop someone from placing SWO-intel down? Its up to the board to PROREC-N right? Or as a recruiter do you know there are zero quotas possible? At some point those "less than 5" must have at least attempted to apply?

Follow-on question; say a SWO redes to IP, are they considered a SWO-IP at that point?
 
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exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
surf3001x said:
Ah ok,

So quota driven - but does that completely stop someone from placing SWO-intel down? Its up to the board to PROREC-N right? Or as a recruiter do you know there are zero quotas possible? At some point those "less than 5" must have at least attempted to apply?

Follow-on question; say a SWO redes to IP, are they considered a SWO-IP at that point?
Click to expand...
The board can't give what they don't have, so if a person puts down SWO-Intel and that is there only choice it will get rejected when it arrives at NRC for "no quota".

They would just be considered IP.
 
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surf3001x

Fully Qualified
For sure, but you can still toss SWO-intel as a top option with two follow on's? If someone is only putting SWO-intel down, they clearly haven't spent enough time browsing this forum to know you should fill out your options as competition is no joke.

I ask because originally my recruiter told me I could not even apply for IP as I lacked calc 2. I pointed out PA where it states "preferred" not required and was picked up first round. Some individuals might not know to push back on that sort of thing. I know that padre's recruiter is essentially telling him he shouldn't bother applying at all due to his waivers. I think this is a mistake and unless hes absolutely DQ'd it should be left up to the board to decide not the recruiter.

Great to know about SWO's who redes to IP - thank you!
 
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