Hot new helicopter/rotorcraft news

[IKE]

I think this is where a lot of people are getting confused. This is not designed to replace the HTs. The students doing COPT-R still do a full HT syllabus. They're just not going to Primary. I'm pretty sure the transition from a T-Cyclic is a lot less jarring than the transition from a T-6 and students seem to make that work.

This seems really important to reiterate. I'll admit to not grasping this key point early in the thread. I can truly say my 89 hours in the T-34C did nearly nothing for my helicopter stick and rudder ... er, cyclic and pedal skills.

Yes, I learned an ounce of officer ship, and a pound of EP memorization, flight planning, Air nav, etc. during Primary. But nothing about the T-34 prepared me for trying to hover inside that little concrete square during HT FAM 1.

 

[taxi1]

trying to hover inside that little concrete square during HT FAM 1.

 

[Randy Daytona]

As already discussed, this is possible in any underslung rotor system. The NYC 206 crash in April of this year was caused by Mast Bumping. You're right, the problem isn't alleviated - because physics is a harsh mistress - but it's also not unique to the R66.

Thanks for that info. From what I saw, it looked liked the A frame mounts had separated and the rotor system with the transmission had separated (corrosion or metal fatigue) - did not know that it was finally determined as mast bumping.

 

[Griz882]

Thanks for that info. From what I saw, it looked liked the A frame mounts had separated and the rotor system with the transmission had separated (corrosion or metal fatigue) - did not know that it was finally determined as mast bumping.

They haven’t. I’ll wait for the final report, but my highly untrained eye sees structural failure, not mast bumping.

 

[ChuckMK23]

They haven’t. I’ll wait for the final report, but my highly untrained eye sees structural failure, not mast bumping.

I spoke with an AF colleague who hails from the Helo community. The AF has doubled down with CAE and the Bell 505 for their "T-6 bypass pipeline".

In my mind, the AF has always been the most knowledgeable and advanced operators of military rotorcraft including all weather and open ocean high risk ops.

It's interesting to me that the issues @FlyNavy03 brings up are a non issue for USAF.

 

[Flash]

Fair enough. If we are actually looking to save some real tax payer money then why not require that all military applicants come to the service with a ppl (IFR) in hand?

Currently this is basically the situation in the AF - especially ANG and Reserve units...

That's not great at all if true, putting folks who are unable to get a PPL at a great disadvantage. One of the great things I loved about Navy flight school was how 'democratic' it was, giving everyone as fair chance as possible no matter what the background.

During that same time there were about that many Bell 505 crashes, too. Keep in mind that there are also fewer than half as many 505s in service.

I'd be more interested in the mishap rate, especially how the Robinsons compare to other possible helo trainer counterparts. Grizz's concerns about the R's definitely give me pause, as we've seen many times before a zeal to cut costs in training often results in far more costs in the long run (cough...SWOS!).

 

[Griz882]

That's not great at all if true, putting folks who are unable to get a PPL at a great disadvantage. One of the great things I loved about Navy flight school was how 'democratic' it was, giving everyone as fair chance as possible no matter what the background.

Of course, I’m not serious about what I wrote. My biggest concern is that all of this is focused on saving dollars as opposed to finding efficient (and safe) training programs. To refocus the discussion, I believe overall that COPT-R is a fine idea, I just feel the Robby is a poor training helicopter for even entry military training needs - it strikes me as a savings idea rather than a “best option” idea.

 

[Flash]

Of course, I’m not serious about what I wrote. My biggest concern is that all of this is focused on saving dollars as opposed to finding efficient (and safe) training programs. To refocus the discussion, I believe overall that COPT-R is a fine idea, I just feel the Robby is a poor training helicopter for even entry military training needs - it strikes me as a savings idea rather than a “best option” idea.

I was highlighting what Chuck wrote and included your post for context. As for the Robinsons, I share your concerns even with my very limited helo knowledges.

 

[Gatordev]

In my mind, the AF has always been the most knowledgeable and advanced operators of military rotorcraft including all weather and open ocean high risk ops.

Come on Chuck, I know you've partaken in the AF Kool-Aid, but even for you, that statement is out there. It's a Blackhawk (and a very old one up until recently) with a radar bolted on the front and an ASE package on the back. They execute a mission they train to. Guess what, so does the Navy, and they do it in the open ocean all the time and many of the helicopters have about 30 more sensors on it and numerous more weapon systems.

The missions are different, that doesn't mean one is more knowledgeable and advanced than the other, they're just different.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Come on Chuck, I know you've partaken in the AF Kool-Aid, but even for you, that statement is out there. It's a Blackhawk (and a very old one up until recently) with a radar bolted on the front and an ASE package on the back. They execute a mission they train to. Guess what, so does the Navy, and they do it in the open ocean all the time and many of the helicopters have about 30 more sensors on it and numerous more weapon systems.

The missions are different, that doesn't mean one is more knowledgeable and advanced than the other, they're just different.

I know I know. I'll try to refrain from being too far in the Koool Aid Fair points Gator!

 

[PhrogPhlyer]

The NYC 206 crash in April of this year was caused by Mast Bumping.

NTSB is still investigating, tail boom failure followed separation of the complete drive system as a single unit is not indicative of mast bumping.
From NTSB preliminary report dated 10 APR 25.


Figure 3. Enhanced surveillance video with sequential images depicting the helicopter’s flight and breakup.