Hornet FCS - How does it work in a turn?

[abracadabra11]

Helo guy with a jet question...When you push the stick left/right in the Hornet to turn, does it adjust flight control surfaces other than the ailerons? i.e. Does it *raise* the elevator to maintain altitude/increase power dependent on the severity of the turn?

Thanks.

 

[Single Seat]

Yes. Stabs, rudders, trailing edge flaps, all move. What moves though is a function of airspeed and angle of attack. When you're slow in a fight, it's banging away at all the control surfaces. The faster you get the less things move, once you get to 600 knots or greater, the only thing it uses are the horiz. stabs for roll.

In the landing configuration the ailerons droop with the flaps, and when you apply say left stick, for left wing down, the left aileron fairs into the wind dropping lift off that side, as well as moving the stabs a little bit.

 

[FLY_USMC]

It does what it needs to do to give you the commanded movement out of the plane. At extremely high speeds it may roll the aircraft with the trailing edge flaps, because Mr. Computer has calculated moving the ailerons would make the roll rate uncontrollable. At extremely low speed, the pirouette logic actually moves the rudders when you ask for roll or yaw, meaning moving the stick full left or slamming in rull left rudder will do the same thing. Overall the differential stab is probably the most used control surface, but again, Mr. Computer can do things numerous different ways. Heard a story about someone coming off target, one of his stabs de-laminated and completely came off, only the big hunk of control rod actuator was still sticking out....and attempting to make corrections. As soon as the jet realized something else needed to move to make the jet fly, it moved it. Supposedly the pilot only realized he was missing a stab during the off-target battle damage check. To really answer your question, who cares I guess. The jet is constantly twitching some surface...or all of them for that matter...to give you what you want, we really don't care which ones are moving, unless you get some sort of FCS problem. Everything I've said is caveated with I have 30 hours in the jet, take it for what it's worth.

 

[Gatordev]

I think what he's asking is does the FCS hold altitude while you bank w/out you having to apply back pressure like you would in, say, a T-34. On a robust helo FCS (ie, NOT a -57) it does this for you, so when you bank, that's all you do, it adjusts pitch, yaw, and collective (which is altitude) to hold altitude. This is w/ some sort of ALT hold on, otherwise a helo has the same issue that a non-FCS airplane does...bank and you lose lift.

abracadabra, correct me if I'm misreading your post.

 

[Single Seat]

This is w/ some sort of ALT hold on, otherwise a helo has the same issue that a non-FCS airplane does...bank and you lose lift.

Accurate statement for the Hornet as well, without any of the Pilot Relief modes on (i.e. autopilot) yes the jet will descend if you roll left or right. It constantly trims itself for 1g flight, so if you roll and let go, it will trim for 1g.

 

[abracadabra11]

I think what he's asking is does the FCS hold altitude while you bank w/out you having to apply back pressure like you would in, say, a T-34. On a robust helo FCS (ie, NOT a -57) it does this for you, so when you bank, that's all you do, it adjusts pitch, yaw, and collective (which is altitude) to hold altitude. This is w/ some sort of ALT hold on, otherwise a helo has the same issue that a non-FCS airplane does...bank and you lose lift.

abracadabra, correct me if I'm misreading your post.

This was definitely a part of the question, but I was also curious about the overall function as well.

 

[USMC Helo Bubba]

Yes. Stabs, rudders, trailing edge flaps, all move. What moves though is a function of airspeed and angle of attack. When you're slow in a fight, it's banging away at all the control surfaces. The faster you get the less things move, once you get to 600 knots or greater, the only thing it uses are the horiz. stabs for roll.

In the landing configuration the ailerons droop with the flaps, and when you apply say left stick, for left wing down, the left aileron fairs into the wind dropping lift off that side, as well as moving the stabs a little bit.

So what do you guys do?

 

[Tex_Hill]

So what do you guys do?

Ouch.

 

[tlord82]

We vote on what the plane is going to. Problem is that the plane gets 51% of the vote.

 

[Single Seat]

So what do you guys do?

More than you.

 

[phrogpilot73]

More than you.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[MasterBates]

As someone who has flown Jets, Props and Helos.. Here is my take on the actual stickmonkey skills involved. BI/RIs are about the closest apples to apples comparison (you don't fly the ball in the -44, you don't hover a -45, and the -57 is not all that fast)

Helos are where I was the busiest actually flying the damned thing. BIs and RIs in the T-45? Easy.

T-44 was not bad, being stable, but you were often flying OEI. Which did make things a bit challenging at times.

BIs / RIs in the -57? Kicked my ass, even with 1200 hours in JetRangers.

 

[jarhead]

So what do you guys do?

More than you.

Keep telling yourself that.

I would think flying a Helo is harder than flying a Hornet. I think most people could be trained to fly the Hornet ... not too many can be trained to employ it though. Big difference between 80 kts & 480kts ... you can't just pass the controls or come to a hover in the Hornet if you get helmet fire inbound to the target. If a chooper dude misses his target by a click, the troops walk, a Hornet dude misses the target by a click, troops die ...

S/F

 

[phrogpilot73]

I would think flying a Helo is harder than flying a Hornet. I think most people could be trained to fly the Hornet ... not too many can be trained to employ it though. Big difference between 80 kts & 480kts

I agree that in a hover, a helo is harder to fly. I also agree that there is a big difference between 80 kts (we actually cruise at 90-120) and 480 kts. That's about the last time we agreed.

... you can't just pass the controls or come to a hover in the Hornet if you get helmet fire inbound to the target.

Yes you can pass the control inbound to the target (probably won't), but you can't come into a hover either. Whether jet guys want to believe it or not, we have tactical considerations, same as you.

If a chooper dude misses his target by a click, the troops walk, a Hornet dude misses the target by a click, troops die.

Did you forget that Skids employ PGMs/rockets/guns as well? What do you think happens after fully loaded grunts have to do a 1 click movement to contact? They're exhausted when they get there - and the enemy's got a shitload of warning time. Not to mention if you're using supporting arms, and you're flying under an active GTL. What happens if we're a click off target and the target is the FRSS/CSH? Troops die. What happens if you get vertigo? What happens if you get an emergency? You eject. Troops can die when we do.

Truth be told, I don't know what life's like above 10,000 ft and I don't want to. But to insinuate (as SingleSeat did) that you do more because you drop PGMs, or do the occasional gun run, or think you're cool (in your own mind at least) is offensive.

 

[FLY_USMC]

I have nothing against any of my helo breatheran. I've got plenty of helo buds that when we get together we talk shiat on eachother until we're blue in the face but at the end of the day, I still always want them to take me up to base so I can check out there ride.

Having said that, and having been on this website as one name or another since like 2000, I can honestly say I think the helo guys talk more shiat than the jet guys do. I think that's what Single Seat was getting at, besides does USMC Helo Bubba even have wings or is he just a passenger with knowledge(s).