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HM community

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator

Any idea if the Navy could take the entire class of Independence LCS’s and re-assign / re-equip them as permanent minesweepers instead of decommissioning them? There is a mission to be filled at the same time as you are mothballing relatively new ships that seem to be capable of little else. You could even give this mission to the reserves to save on manpower?
 

SynixMan

HKG Based Artificial Excrement Pilot
pilot
Contributor
Any idea if the Navy could take the entire class of Independence LCS’s and re-assign / re-equip them as permanent minesweepers instead of decommissioning them? There is a mission to be filled at the same time as you are mothballing relatively new ships that seem to be capable of little else. You could even give this mission to the reserves to save on manpower?

Minesweepers are specifically designed with features to operate in mine environments. LCS is not. I think the LCS MCM package was various systems that would enter the minefield.
 

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
HM used to be ship based before Synix’s time in the community of FDNF based HM. In the vain of reducing special purpose ships, the Tripoli class was retired and the MCM mission was included in the multipurpose LCS class.

The sled (formally known as the Mk-105) is a unique piece of gear that was originally intended to be towed out of an amphibious ship’s well deck and transitioned onto its hydrofoils before entering the minefield. It’s been around since Vietnam in various configs.

IMO, The guts of it can absolutely be repackaged and integrated into larger remotely operated unmanned surface platform. It would still require some manual handling for some of the mission aspects.

Just add a requirement, lots of development $ and some fielding time and there you go.
I just have to think it would be easier and cheaper than all the UAVs - particularly Firescout.
 

MGoBrew11

Well-Known Member
pilot
I think the we are 10 years late on the Navy picking up a multi billion dollar procurement for an MH-53K variant. Lots of non-recurring engineering and development dollars needed to figure it out. This was on the table in 2011 - 2012 IIRC. If there’s a demand signal and funds, industry can build it, although not sure it is necessary with advanced sensor technology available today in various family of systems.

HSM is a pretty safe bet IMO. High demand mission, good equipment. However, your competition field for long term promotion is more narrow as there are many players in the game. This mostly matters if have you want to jump in the game of breaking out and competing for command.

Wouldn’t the fact that HSM is healthy mean more opportunity to command? I would think you have a better shot of making CO as an HSM guy right now than HSC or HM.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
Minesweepers are specifically designed with features to operate in mine environments. LCS is not. I think the LCS MCM package was various systems that would enter the minefield.
Thanks for the info. Seems a shame to be unable to repurpose ships so new and instead have to decommission them.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
Wouldn’t the fact that HSM is healthy mean more opportunity to command? I would think you have a better shot of making CO as an HSM guy right now than HSC or HM.
It’s a numbers game, not necessarily health of the community. Granted, it’s tough to make it to Skipper if the squadrons cease to exist, but how big are the wardrooms? The squadrons may have a ton of dudes in it but squadrons only need a Skipper and XO.

Not that I’d base my community decision on likelihood of making command, just making the point that there’s a lot going into command opportunists.
 

MGoBrew11

Well-Known Member
pilot
It’s a numbers game, not necessarily health of the community. Granted, it’s tough to make it to Skipper if the squadrons cease to exist, but how big are the wardrooms? The squadrons may have a ton of dudes in it but squadrons only need a Skipper and XO.

Not that I’d base my community decision on likelihood of making command, just making the point that there’s a lot going into command opportunists.
Yeah concur with all of that and concur with don’t make a community decision on command opportunities. It really ends up being a crap shoot and timing based anyways. I’ve seen a lot of good COs and some not so good ones. I’ve also seen a lot of folks not screen that I was surprised by and people that screened that had me scratching my head a little bit.
 

KODAK

"Any time in this type?"
pilot
Glad this has turned into a good conversation about HM! A couple minor points: the Mk105 sled is the big shiny toy that folks who don’t understand AMCM usually associate with “clearing for mines”. Without speaking too deeply on the particulars, sea mines are actuated in multiple ways: some require physical contact, others sense the magnetic presence of a ship, while others listen for acoustic cues, etc. Add on top of that a ship counter feature and/ or multiple triggers necessary to activate a mine and you can imagine the ugly possibilities.. All that to say the current construct is “hunt when you can and sweep where you must”. AMCM is performed by first searching the water column with the Q24 sonar and then prosecuting individual mine threats with a system called AMNS (the Sierra has a smaller version of AMNS that is actually workable, unlike their capabilities to map out the water column). The larger issue is that the Sierra cannot tow the Q, so in effect it can kill mines but only if another aircraft finds them for it..

Unfortunately the larger issue for the AMCM community is the idea from the geniuses in Panama City to “take the man out of the minefield”. While it indeed sounds noble, they have wasted (likely) several billion dollars over two plus decades trying to field a multitude of unmanned systems to do what the 53 can do now, albeit crudely and at much expense. Also, for those who speak well of the SMCM ships there is some merit there, although our ally’s (notably the Japanese and several of the Nordic countries) lead the way in ship-based SMCM action. The Avenger class ships have been abused and ignored more than the 53..

As an HM guy, I would posit that for a rotary wing pilot HSM has the brightest future followed by HSC/ HM. The greatest difference I see between HSC and HM is that in HM we have a well-defined mission set (AMCM and VOD), which is certainly not desirable or sexy, but important at a meaningful level. The feedback I’ve gotten (from more than one HSC friend) is that HSC is a community in search of a mission..
 

000669219

Active Member
Even if they delay it again, don't go to a dying community. If you get helos, HSM, HSC, HM in that order, with some coast preference.
Or do go into a dying community, collect fat per diem pay checks, never go to the boat, and then get out before becoming a hinge. ?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️
 

Ventus

Weather Guesser
pilot
So when the 53's go away, what happens to the pilots? Do you think they'll be given the option to re-dez to VMR CMV-22's? HSC 60S? Early sep? Interservice transfer? XD
 

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
So when the 53's go away, what happens to the pilots? Do you think they'll be given the option to re-dez to VMR CMV-22's? HSC 60S? Early sep? Interservice transfer? XD
Probably a combination of all of them with ISTs being the least likely. They will get their disassociated tour out of you if I had to guess!

Some have already done some swaps to HSC and I have to assume VRM as well.
 

Ventus

Weather Guesser
pilot
So out of curiosity, since there's only one HM Squadron left in the fleet that's not the FRS, what does a modern HM deployment schedule look like? Individual dets/aircraft to USNS? Shore based hot spots near congested shipping lanes? I really have no frame of reference for what that's supposed to look like.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
So out of curiosity, since there's only one HM Squadron left in the fleet that's not the FRS, what does a modern HM deployment schedule look like? Individual dets/aircraft to USNS? Shore based hot spots near congested shipping lanes? I really have no frame of reference for what that's supposed to look like.
Close the whole thing down. No more "future generations" of HM. RIP the damn band aid off. Scale up CMV-22.
 
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