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HM community

hscs

Registered User
pilot
#31
How long would it take to get a ship with mine clearing capabilities half way around the world by sea vs how long could you pack up helicopters with capability and airlift them into theater.
Ship - 27 days @ 15 kts for 10k nm

Airlift - 90 day min lead time to tell AMC you need airlift.
Add 30 days for USN to find $ to pay for said airlift and argue with AMC about priority
Add 5 days for when airlift plane goes 'down' in Rota or Guam when a crew member finds the love of his life
Add 10 days to rebuild big Iron and FCF

My cynicism puts $ on the ship winning
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
#32
Ship - 27 days @ 15 kts for 10k nm

Airlift - 90 day min lead time to tell AMC you need airlift.
Add 30 days for USN to find $ to pay for said airlift and argue with AMC about priority
Add 5 days for when airlift plane goes 'down' in Rota or Guam when a crew member finds the love of his life
Add 10 days to rebuild big Iron and FCF

My cynicism puts $ on the ship winning
Find me mine hunter that can do 15kts with an endurance great then 15 days at sea first... you'll still have the same delays for the Navy scrounging money to find ships to transport the mine hunters, so realistically even when the airlift crew goes med down for 2 weeks mid trip from visiting the whore house on their last RON the helos are probably going to get to theater sooner.
 

Pags

Well-Known Member
pilot
#34
Find me mine hunter that can do 15kts with an endurance great then 15 days at sea first... you'll still have the same delays for the Navy scrounging money to find ships to transport the mine hunters, so realistically even when the airlift crew goes med down for 2 weeks mid trip from visiting the whore house on their last RON the helos are probably going to get to theater sooner.
Hence why all the MCM ships are forward deployed. Along with dets from the HM squadrons.
 

hscs

Registered User
pilot
#35
Find me mine hunter that can do 15kts with an endurance great then 15 days at sea first... you'll still have the same delays for the Navy scrounging money to find ships to transport the mine hunters, so realistically even when the airlift crew goes med down for 2 weeks mid trip from visiting the whore house on their last RON the helos are probably going to get to theater sooner.
Agreed - even at 10 kts, you still get there in 42 days. And yes, OPNAV needs to find $ for gas, but OPNAV will know exactly what they will pay for. I don't know fuel burn of a minesweeper but I bet the fuel cost will be less than the cost to send 3 x MH53s via airlift. As mentioned, many of these ships are forward deployed.

Also, even though an aircraft can sweep at a much faster speed - a ship doesn't have to come off station every couple of hours.

Airlift is not as easy as everyone thinks. AMC has absurd scheduling and priority rules that includes the customer paying the price of the airlift with the customer being at the mercy of what AMC gives them. This includes paying 'dead head' costs - so you pay for a C17 to fly from the west coast / Hawaii even though the ramp at Charleston or Dover is filled with available a/c. Costs to send 3 x MH53s OTH could run well beyond $3M just to get the planes to theater.

I'll still put my money on the ship.
 

Pags

Well-Known Member
pilot
#37
Agreed - even at 10 kts, you still get there in 42 days. And yes, OPNAV needs to find $ for gas, but OPNAV will know exactly what they will pay for. I don't know fuel burn of a minesweeper but I bet the fuel cost will be less than the cost to send 3 x MH53s via airlift. As mentioned, many of these ships are forward deployed.

Also, even though an aircraft can sweep at a much faster speed - a ship doesn't have to come off station every couple of hours.

Airlift is not as easy as everyone thinks. AMC has absurd scheduling and priority rules that includes the customer paying the price of the airlift with the customer being at the mercy of what AMC gives them. This includes paying 'dead head' costs - so you pay for a C17 to fly from the west coast / Hawaii even though the ramp at Charleston or Dover is filled with available a/c. Costs to send 3 x MH53s OTH could run well beyond $3M just to get the planes to theater.

I'll still put my money on the ship.
You can always put HM on a ship and would likely want to for real world ops to decrease transit time and increase time in the field. I know HM was always envisioned as a user of ESB.
 

fc2spyguy

loving my warm and comfy 214 blanket
pilot
Contributor
#39
Ship - 27 days @ 15 kts for 10k nm

Airlift - 90 day min lead time to tell AMC you need airlift.
Add 30 days for USN to find $ to pay for said airlift and argue with AMC about priority
Add 5 days for when airlift plane goes 'down' in Rota or Guam when a crew member finds the love of his life
Add 10 days to rebuild big Iron and FCF

My cynicism puts $ on the ship winning
Uhh, definitely not a 90 day minimum on an AMC lift. You do get a discount outside of thirty days though! And if you get PRI 1 I guarantee you're going to get the lift that you need. . .
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
#40
I hate to throw a grenade in the room and leave, but some of these arguments are so ludicrous. I was the mine warfare officer on a CCDG staff and thus went to mine warfare school. I wasn't an HM pilot, but I did pay attention in class.

Yes, there are MIW assets forward deployed. There is a good reason for that. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses, which I won't discuss on here (both because of the sensitivity and because its been a LONG time sense I was even in the Navy, much less doing MIW).
 
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