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Helo Question
- Thread starter Fly Navy
- Start date
phrogdriver said:
Along the lines of what I have heard. I have read that the pilot is in the right seat so he can keep his hand on the cyclic and the left hand is free to handle charts, make freq changes, etc. While the Navy may teach you guys not to ever take your hands off the controls, it is not possible in most all civ helo ops because they are single piloted. Law enforcement and med evac missions are very dynamic but are flown single pilot with a tactical officer or nurse/emt in the other seat. The collective may be important but you can get away with taking your hands off the collective, particularly in cruise, long enough to fiddle with stuff. Also, since the collective is in the center of the cockpit, you can fly with doors off and use you left hand without stuff flying out. The radio and insrtument stack is in the center of the panel as well. If in the left seat the right hand is far less likely to come off the cyclic for admin purposes on the console. Just the observation of a low time law enforcement tactical flight officer.
In my world, we have a gucci Automated Flight Control System (AFCS) with dual computers running the show. We also have computerized collective trim, and cyclic trim as well (no magnetic brake trim). It is nice to reach the controls quickly if necessary, but no need for a death grip.
Seems in the Navy 53 world, we use altitude hold a lot as well, so very often my hand if not on the collective.
It's gonna be interesting with fly by wire stuff in the future.
Seems in the Navy 53 world, we use altitude hold a lot as well, so very often my hand if not on the collective.
It's gonna be interesting with fly by wire stuff in the future.
At least in the SH-2F Seasprite, HH-1N Huey and the SH-60B Seahawk helicopters (I flew all three for the Navy), there was no "pilot" seat. Either seat was for either pilot. The AC normally chose what seat he wanted based on the mission they were going to fly.
I've heard a few different things...the MH-60S is set up identically on either side with the exception of the rotor brake (which I imagine all Navy H-60s are the same...it's on the right)...
Part of the reason that it's never mattered in the HC community is during a VERTREP, you'll switch controls everytime you're over a deck (ie, right side goes in for a pick, switches controls on the transition to the drop deck, left side takes it for the drop, switches controls on the transition to the pick deck, etc...etc...etc)
That's one reason that you'll not find too many in the HSC world pushing for the NFO in the front...can't switch controls in a dynamic environment.
A few more:
1) helo restrictions to an LHA/D, you'd tie the hands of the boat donkeys (no offense to you out there) to restrict night landings to certain spots (ie, no x-cockpit landings behind a spinning tail rotor aircraft, etc).
2) VERTIGO. Has happened numberous times. No more "2 challenge, minute to the deck"...my 3rd night flight to a single-spot ship and my HAC got it so bad, he refused to touch the controls...
3) Simple ORM - how many times have you landed with the wind "on the edge of the wind envelope"...now try it x-cockpit.
4) You're in a damn helo, if you get lost, land, figure it out and take back off...who needs a FO?! I mean seriously, when was the last time a helo got lost or needed to navigate...it doesn't go far/fast enough to really get into much trouble! Minus that guy who landed his H-60B on a Japanese oil rig a few months back...
~D
Part of the reason that it's never mattered in the HC community is during a VERTREP, you'll switch controls everytime you're over a deck (ie, right side goes in for a pick, switches controls on the transition to the drop deck, left side takes it for the drop, switches controls on the transition to the pick deck, etc...etc...etc)
That's one reason that you'll not find too many in the HSC world pushing for the NFO in the front...can't switch controls in a dynamic environment.
A few more:
1) helo restrictions to an LHA/D, you'd tie the hands of the boat donkeys (no offense to you out there) to restrict night landings to certain spots (ie, no x-cockpit landings behind a spinning tail rotor aircraft, etc).
2) VERTIGO. Has happened numberous times. No more "2 challenge, minute to the deck"...my 3rd night flight to a single-spot ship and my HAC got it so bad, he refused to touch the controls...
3) Simple ORM - how many times have you landed with the wind "on the edge of the wind envelope"...now try it x-cockpit.
4) You're in a damn helo, if you get lost, land, figure it out and take back off...who needs a FO?! I mean seriously, when was the last time a helo got lost or needed to navigate...it doesn't go far/fast enough to really get into much trouble! Minus that guy who landed his H-60B on a Japanese oil rig a few months back...
~D
JIMC5499 said:
Well, you had to come from somewhere close in order to even be in the middle of the IO. I just got back from the AG and it's just as bad, but you have TACAN coverage for 50-60 miles unless the shoes F'ed that up...(again, no offense to the shoes, but some of the vessels we fly on are USNS, which have CIVILIAN shoes on it...and they sometimes turned the TACAN off when they shouldn't).
Final thought on right seat...if you are in the left and HAC...you are both going into the water on a controlled ditch (maybe because you got lost in the IO at night)...whereas you could consider kickin' your co-pilot out before you ditch if you are a HAC on the right...
$.02 more,
~D
He did say that if you were lost didn't he? Sometimes that little itty bitty thing called an aircraft carrier isn't where it is supposed to be and due to a Russian May it has all of that navigation stuff turned off on purpose. Then that damn fuel gauge needle keeps moving in the wrong direction. Kind of makes for an interesting evening.
JIMC5499 said:
True, true...but...
As with any EMCON, it shall be briefed prior to flight and safety of flight always trumps EMCON...at least in the pubs it does. Do you always follow the pubs? Not necessarily, but you'd better have a good reason why you don't. I'd find it hard to believe that we'd be "surprised" by a Russian anything now-a-day...This could DEFINITLY be my 4.5 years experience (3.5 as a winged aviator) and I'd LOVE to be enlightened if there's something out there I don't know (READ: Don't be pissed off by my ignorance)
COMPLETELY understand something like that happening in the 80s, and I'd love to hear a story about that...
Another $.02...Jeez I've gotta be a two-bits by now...
~D
Actually it was November 1984 I was with HS-15 off of the Indy in the IO. It happend pretty much as I said. We were lucky enough to find a frigate from our battlegroup and HIFR enough gas to get us back to the boat. What was going on with the May I don't know. I didn't have a need to know.ChunksJR said:
What's the advantage of a HIFR vice landing and getting a hot pump? Is it just a deckspace issue, or is it faster, or what? I presume the 60Fs (or H-3s) don't have any kind of RAST capes, so are they able to land on a small deck like that?gatordev said:
Brett
