Gun laws question

[Bevo16]

No, I do get it. There is a reason we have a justice system instead of just guns and 'frontier justice'.

Actually, we have both. The original story proves that.

You can't just appoint yourself judge, jury and executioner, it is not right and it is against the law. I am not saying in every case that deadly force is not justified, but if a 'suspect' is not an imminent threat to your or someone else, how is it 'right'?

I can't? Why not? If I have a gun and am willing to negotiate the legal system after I use it, I can do pretty much anything I want. This includes killing someone who my wife says has just raped her. I don't even really care how far away he is. If he is out of range of the .45 that I carry, then I may have to pull the 30-30 off my gun rack to reach out and touch him.

IMHO any man who has commited a rape in his past is an imminent threat to do it again. We may have different definitions of "imminent", but I don't care. Mine works in this case.

You want that kind of justice? Go to the tribal areas of Pakistan, or Saudi Arabia.

Consider who you are talking to. Most of us have been there.

What happens if you shoot the wrong guy, a neighbor jogging past on his nightly run? Don't think it won't happen, how many times have the cops shot someone who they thought was a suspect and it turns out he wasn't? In the dark, adrenaline pumping, a quickly fading target.......take that chance and hit the wrong target, you make a bad situation worse.

Wait, what? I thought that you were telling us to hold fire and let the cops handle it. Now you are telling us that the cops are going to screw up and shoot the wrong guy anyway. Seems like I have a better chance of getting the right guy while he is in my sights. I understand that I am responsible for all the hot lead that goes downrange from my firearm. That's why I train with my weapon.

By taking the law into your own hands by shooting a fleeing suspect who is not a threat to you or anyone else, I think you are violating those principles by which our laws are founded.

Go back and read those founding doccuments again. I think that you will find that the "principles" of doing things on your own greatly outweigh those of waiting for someone else to take care your your business.

 

[BENDER]

Just to chime in, being in Texas, Houston, (not that it matters)I have witnessed a few situations. My next door neighbor awakened one morning to his car being broken into, pulled his shot gun out and when the guy tried to run, fired a round into the ground, needless to say he dropped to his knees and begged for his life. I woke up to the shot and went out side, saw him laying at the end of the driveway, thought the dude was dead, he told me to call the cops, they came and I shit you not they said "you should have blown his head off". Point of the story, when there running and someone says "stop or I will shoot", and send a round into the ground, chances are he will stop and lay down( at least form what I have seen), and that's one less father that has to die for some stupid crime (wise words from the guy with the shot gun). Of course it all depends on the situation at hand, and how fast can you analyze the situation before you decide to take a life. However, I personally am extremely against sex offenders (and I am not relating this to the story), if I am ever in the situation where I catch a guy trying to rape or hurt my girlfriend, sister , mother, child, I don't care if the guy is 2 blocks down the road, the hunt will start. These guys go to jail 6 months and are released and will do it again, they need to be stopped. Of course this is just my ignorant youth position, so take it for what its worth.

 

[villanelle]

However, I personally am extremely against sex offenders (and I am not relating this to the story), if I am ever in the situation where I catch a guy trying to rape or hurt my girlfriend, sister , mother, child, I don't care if the guy is 2 blocks down the road, the hunt will start. These guys go to jail 6 months and are released and will do it again, they need to be stopped. Of course this is just my ignorant youth position, so take it for what its worth.

I was trying to stay out of this thread, but I suck at self-restraint.

I say this with no snark intended.

If you ever, heaven forbid, catch a guy trying to rape or hurt your girlfriend, sister, mother, or child, I think your loved one would be much better served by having your attention and having you contact medical and law enforcement personnel than she would being left alone to fend for herself while you take off down the street. What feels most productive and satisfying isn't always the best thing for those you are trying to help.

 

[mmx1]

I read the FBI stats & stuff, Flash. I've been doin' this and instructing it for a couple of decades. Do your homework. Use your liberal head for something other than a hat rack.

So it's OK to kill someone based on a probabilistic prediction of their future actions?

 

[raptor10]

I was trying to stay out of this thread, but I suck at self-restraint.

I say this with no snark intended.

If you ever, heaven forbid, catch a guy trying to rape or hurt your girlfriend, sister, mother, or child, I think your loved one would be much better served by having your attention and having you contact medical and law enforcement personnel than she would being left alone to fend for herself while you take off down the street. What feels most productive and satisfying isn't always the best thing for those you are trying to help.

Do the five minutes of inattention compare to a lifetime of knowing the guy is still out there in the world?

 

[BENDER]

I was trying to stay out of this thread, but I suck at self-restraint.

I say this with no snark intended.

If you ever, heaven forbid, catch a guy trying to rape or hurt your girlfriend, sister, mother, or child, I think your loved one would be much better served by having your attention and having you contact medical and law enforcement personnel than she would being left alone to fend for herself while you take off down the street. What feels most productive and satisfying isn't always the best thing for those you are trying to help.

I agree, in reality if he was gone "2 blocks away" I would give aid. I guess it was more of a point that I was making. I honestly don't know what I would do in the situation, I don't think anyone does, I pray to God nobody will have to deal with that. I would bet just like any other man, emotion would take over common sense and ignore the consequences. Funny timing with this thread, my girlfriend and I just moved out into our first apartment, and this was my biggest fear, that why I made the post (dealing with rights of using firearms) So I prepared my self accordingly, and am prepared to practice my rights with my firearm. But yes, 100% your right.

 

[A4sForever]

So it's OK to kill someone based on a probabilistic prediction of their future actions?

You're not REALLY tryin' to pick a fight based on your ignorance, are you???

And no; I didn't say that, did I??? ... But based on reading comprehension, it would probably be O.K. to kill you. (please note "smiley" so you don't go off "half-cocked" -- pun intended).

I'm talkin' about what HAS HAPPENED ... now, repeat after me ... slowly: what ... has .... happened .... a.k.a. "case histories" .... and the reason(s) why and what the judgments/outcomes were ... you know, those things based on reality??? FBI stats and case histories???

 

[A4sForever]

I was trying to stay out of this thread, but I suck at self-restraint.....

Could it be that you are drawn to the "light" ....

One would hope so ... :icon_wink

 

[mmx1]

Cops can't shoot a fleeing suspect unless there is an imminent danger to them or someone else, why should civilians?

Because most "fleeing suspects" are recidivists???

How do you know?

That is why he is a 'suspect' anyways, nothing proven at all. Shooting someone in the back when they are running away, sounds cowardly to me.

I read the FBI stats & stuff, Flash. I've been doin' this and instructing it for a couple of decades. Do your homework. Use your liberal head for something other than a hat rack.

I think my reading comprehension is just fine.

Presumed guilt or likely recidivism of an individual is a shoddy basis for taking a life. I guess that would make me a liberal in your eyes.

 

[A4sForever]

I think my reading comprehension is just fine.
...

I don't. But hey ... you're young and a "smart" guy, right???

The first comment of mine you quote was tongue-in-cheek .... evidently beyond your comprehension.

That's O.K. ... like I said; you're "young".

The second -- you still don't get it. I 'presumed" nothing. I referenced FBI stats and studies, which I've read and you have not. That would not make you a liberal in "my eyes" .... merely stupid.

Move along, Junior.

 

[scoober78]

This thread is waaaaaay beyond help. There are too many gums flapping their way out of rectal orifice...

If he is out of range of the .45 that I carry, then I may have to pull the 30-30 off my gun rack to reach out and touch him.

Yeah...for at least another 15 or 20 yards!:icon_wink

 

[mmx1]

The first comment of mine you quote was tongue-in-cheek .... evidently beyond your comprehension.

Given the amount of chest-thumping in this thread, that was not at all clear. Perhaps smileys were in order. :icon_wink:icon_mi_1

 

[A4sForever]

Given the amount of chest-thumping in this thread, that was not at all clear. Perhaps smileys were in order. :icon_wink:icon_mi_1

Perhaps. Smileys follow .....

And I retract the "stupid" characterization .... you're evidently NOT "stupid".

Nice unusual attitude recovery .... stay safe, younger Bruddah.