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Gun Laws in your state
- Thread starter Prod
- Start date
I wouldn't mess with A4's...
He'll FIND you...
That's fine, I'll have my camera at the ready..and go down as the man who cracked the mystery. I'll distract him with a Mai Tai and tell him it's time for his nap, then make my escape.
Not even liberal gun laws could make that a true statement
OR will always be the best though, athough I hope to make WA and the NUW my permanent address soon so I guess this applies to me
QuagmireMcGuire
Kinder and Gentler
Aho! I missed this.
You are correct on both accounts. I was just making the point that even if hell freezes over and the dems somehow pass it, at least you all will have somewhere to start with over-turning the law via the courts unlike those of us in california. We have no right to bear arms listed in our state constitution.
. We have no right to bear arms listed in our state constitution.
Which is why this years Supreme Court case is so important. The way I understand it is "Strict Scrutiny" will apply the requirement that states do not interfere with a persons individual 2nd amendments rights beyond those required for the general good (and last years Gula case settled that the 2nd is an individual right and not a States right). So, if we were to apply this to the first amendment you could say that not allowing people to yell "Fire: in a crowded theater is a reasonable restriction on their first amendment rights.
Now, what is a "reasonable" restriction on a person's 2nd amendment rights? Serial numbers on individual rounds, oppressive taxes or fees on guns or ammo, byzantine safety tests and "approved gun" processes and laws on what guns are allowed based on appearance are all likely on their way out. Background checks and concealed carry permits will likely stay. However in places like in MD where they are happy to issue you a concealed carry permit after you've been killed, will likely be challenged and a reasonable process to acquire one will have to be put in place.
Not even liberal gun laws could make that a true statement
OR will always be the best though, athough I hope to make WA and the NUW my permanent address soon so I guess this applies to me
OR is by far the best of the three - especially when you factor in the awesomeness that is Ashland.
I am jealous to hear that you are heading up to Whidbey, I saw my snowboard on the wall of my garage the other day and got all choked up...
Ashlander here, although it has changed a lot in the 20 years I've been away.
@ Pugs: I'm generally opposed to most of the restrictions on guns, but out of curiosity, what is the argument against serialized ammunition? Is it just so "The Man" can't keep tabs on you, or something more specific?
Brett
The cost of manufacturing ammo would increase, yes? Ammo prices are high as it is. I think that the basic premise of serialized ammo is not harmful, and would have the potential to aid law enforcement.Ashlander here, although it has changed a lot in the 20 years I've been away.
@ Pugs: I'm generally opposed to most of the restrictions on guns, but out of curiosity, what is the argument against serialized ammunition? Is it just so "The Man" can't keep tabs on you, or something more specific?
Brett
But to do so would mostly just hurt normal Americans who are trying to abide by the law. Do you really think that criminals and gang members wouldn't just destroy the evidence of serial numbers or reload their own ammo without serials? If it's a state thing, they would just bring in ammo from out of state without serials. Would Russian companies and other cheap ammo providers start making batches with serial numbers too, for sale in certain states? What about foreign surplus that doesn't have serial numbers?
The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI) and The National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) contend that serialized ammunition would end up being nothing short of a defacto ban on ammunition. They say it would cost the manufacturers months of downtime and hundreds of millions of dollars to retool to meet the requirement. That would result in an end user cost of several dollars a round best case. Worst case many ammo makers might just go out of business.
Any such law would have to address the hundreds of millions of rounds that already exist as well. Either by grandfathering them in or by making the existing rounds illegal.
To Pic's point even if a gang banger decided to follow this law while breaking another he won't care how much ammo costs a round. Drive by's would still be cheap.
Serialized ammunition is a non starter IMHO. Why not just sue the ammo and gun makers out of business?
Ashlander here, although it has changed a lot in the 20 years I've been away.
@ Pugs: I'm generally opposed to most of the restrictions on guns, but out of curiosity, what is the argument against serialized ammunition? Is it just so "The Man" can't keep tabs on you, or something more specific?
Brett
Another point to consider in serialized projectiles- Reloading. When one makes a purchase of serialized bullets... Would the buyer sign off on the actual number of units in the box of say 500 or a 1000? You would have to count the units by hand or by weight and sign off on that. Hypothetical- Let's say you make the buy and either you or the seller makes an error. Someone between manufacturing and retailer acquires 1 round from the lot and sells to an unscrupulous buyer who then makes a load and commits a crime. How would you defend yourself- and at what cost? What governmental agency is capable of controlling the lots from Manufacturing to Buyer? The list of concerns are long. The costs would be substantial. Hey- I'm all for making the world a safer place but the application of these "well intended" proposed regulations but they are unrealistic.
Can you imagine if someone broke into your house while you were gone and they stole the typical items but you didn't notice 5 bullets missing from one of your numerous boxes of different caliber bullets?
You want to make a dent in crime- Have about 10% of the population go through CCW training and carry. Once the word got out- I submit you'd see very different crime statistics in your area.
Ultimately, the government isn't going to be able to control these sorts of things, and attempts to do so will be fraught with unintended consequences.
Serialized Ammo? Shares in RCBS skyrocket as everyone goes out and buys a reloader
Serialized Bullets? Suddenly people start buying bullet molders and rolling old-school
Ban on Guns? Knife crimes and theft increase
Ban on Drugs/Alcohol? Organized crime
Serialized Ammo? Shares in RCBS skyrocket as everyone goes out and buys a reloader
Serialized Bullets? Suddenly people start buying bullet molders and rolling old-school
Ban on Guns? Knife crimes and theft increase
Ban on Drugs/Alcohol? Organized crime
Ashlander here, although it has changed a lot in the 20 years I've been away.
@ Pugs: I'm generally opposed to most of the restrictions on guns, but out of curiosity, what is the argument against serialized ammunition? Is it just so "The Man" can't keep tabs on you, or something more specific?
Brett
Well, I am "the man" so that's right out
What they all said. Expensive and ineffective at doing anything to curb crime. It would simply be another tax and in this case would be found an onerous one to a person executing their rights. Maryland had a requirement that every handgun had to have a bullet fired through it and sent to the state forensics lab to do that wonderful bullet matching we see on TV so the criminals would be caught. They spent several million dollars on it over about six years and it contributed to solving one crime and that was only secondary evidence. They finally, in a rare bit of common sense, disbanded it. What could they have done with several million dollars over a few years that would have made a difference in crime? A bunch of things IMO that does not involve people legally buying guns.
Well, I am "the man" so that's right out
Is "ballistics" (the common, "TV" understanding?) complete bullshit?
Lots of theory and in a lab condition for the whole chain about 50% reliable. A worn gun or imperfect bullet recovery makes it go dramatically down from there.
I got paired up on an Eastern shore dove hunt with the head of the Maryland state police ballistics lab. He said TV forensics was the bane of his existence and lawyers used the ignorance of jurors educated by TV to their advantage all the time. He called it the "CSI affect"
5 witnesses see a guy rob the store at gunpoint and shoot a guy and they have it on tape, the defendant's lawyer then calls for forensic evidence and the lab can't prove with 100% certainty that the gun they found on him later was used for the crime. That plants doubt in that wonderful jury of their "peers" and off he goes or with a charge reduced to manslaughter on what should have been a clear cut case.