Gun Laws in your state

[Flash]

Flash ... while you know a lot about a few things ... you probably know LESS about firearms & 2nd Amendment issues than anyone else who posts on these subjects ... w/ the possible exception of Spekk-whatever (sorry Spekk-whatever ... I couldn't come up w/ any other AW's lib's on such short notice ) and a few others ... just sayin' ...

I've been doing this for a long time. You get an "F" in a basic understanding of these issues ... both from a historic and a current issues viewpoint. And all because of your own myopia, prejudices, inexperience, and dogma.

But I still love you.

Believe it.

*shrug*

 

[Spekkio]

Flash ... while you know a lot about a few things ... you probably know LESS about firearms & 2nd Amendment issues than anyone else who posts on these subjects ... w/ the possible exception of Spekk-whatever (sorry Spekk-whatever ... I couldn't come up w/ any other AW's lib's on such short notice ) and a few others ... just sayin' ...

First of all, do you even know what my stance is on 2nd amendment issues?

Second of all, the fact that I think that the mass hysteria by the right over a possible Obama presidency and his supposed drastic effect on [insert issue] is unwarranted does not make me unknowledgable about 2nd amendment issues.

 

[A4sForever]

*shrug*

That's the most coherent thing you've said yet about firearms & the 2nd ....

And I still love you. You can run, but you can't hide from my love ... :icon_kiss

Time for pupu's and cocktails ... Cheers.

 

[scoolbubba]

Facts? ok then.

obama voted as a senator to allow lawsuits for the misuse of firearms against manufacturers. he voted to permit lawsuits against individuals for the use of firearms in self-defense. he admittedly wants to bring back the assault weapons ban (one of those common sense restrictions, right?) on weapons that fire common cartridges (5.56=.223) simply because of their appearance, disregarding the fact that less than 1% of violent crimes committed with a weapon used a weapon meeting assault weapon criteria. he favors registration of weapons, ie registration of something everyone has a right to: personal property. He supports minimum age requirements of 21 to own a handgun, thereby banning people who use a weapon in the defense of this nation from owning their own weapon to protect themselves while stateside. Longer wait periods to purchase a handgun. The most glaring gun control point held by your beloved Junior Senator? Individual municipalities and states having the right to regulate gun laws; even after the Heller SCOTUS case this summer, his idea would permit more cities to unconstitutionally ban firearms.

i can go on for a while. i think the facts are pretty clear. Sen. Obama will say what he needs to get the "bitter people" who cling to their guns to vote for him, and with a filibuster proof majority, can do whatever he wants in terms of legislating weapons away from the law abiding citizens they protect. most of these points were previously listed on gunbanobama.com with the cited roll call votes in the senate and state senate. good enough for you?

I think the question no one wants to ask or think about is, what will the rest of us do if this happens?

 

[Flash]

Facts? ok then.

obama voted as a senator to allow lawsuits for the misuse of firearms against manufacturers. he voted to permit lawsuits against individuals for the use of firearms in self-defense. he admittedly wants to bring back the assault weapons ban (one of those common sense restrictions, right?) on weapons that fire common cartridges (5.56=.223) simply because of their appearance, disregarding the fact that less than 1% of violent crimes committed with a weapon used a weapon meeting assault weapon criteria. he favors registration of weapons, ie registration of something everyone has a right to: personal property. He supports minimum age requirements of 21 to own a handgun, thereby banning people who use a weapon in the defense of this nation from owning their own weapon to protect themselves while stateside. Longer wait periods to purchase a handgun. The most glaring gun control point held by your beloved Junior Senator? Individual municipalities and states having the right to regulate gun laws; even after the Heller SCOTUS case this summer, his idea would permit more cities to unconstitutionally ban firearms.

i can go on for a while. i think the facts are pretty clear. Sen. Obama will say what he needs to get the "bitter people" who cling to their guns to vote for him, and with a filibuster proof majority, can do whatever he wants in terms of legislating weapons away from the law abiding citizens they protect. most of these points were previously listed on gunbanobama.com with the cited roll call votes in the senate and state senate. good enough for you?

I think the question no one wants to ask or think about is, what will the rest of us do if this happens?

Out of all of that though, there is nothing suggesting that he or a Democratic controlled Congress will seize people's legally owned firearms. And proposals and ideas are just the first step in politics, it takes a long way from that to actually becoming law.

As for Heller, here is a pretty interesting argument from two well-known conservative jurists about how the decision is flawed. Agree with them or not, it is an interesting argument.

Criticism of Heller

 

[C420sailor]

Good for you, so did I. And again, where in that link provided is there anything backing up their claim? Just a single bullet that has NOTHING to substantiate it with.

As you wish...

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-18769365.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE4DE1238F932A05754C0A967958260

FACT: New York City outlawed "assault weapons" with NO grandfather clause. If the police catch you with an assault weapon, regardless of the date of manufacture, it can be seized and you can be arrested and charged with a felony. Whether it is strictly enforced or not is not the point---a ban is a ban. Legislation is legislation. The ban still stands today and has not been challenged.

 

[Flash]

As you wish...

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-18769365.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE4DE1238F932A05754C0A967958260

FACT: New York City outlawed "assault weapons" with NO grandfather clause. If the police catch you with an assault weapon, regardless of the date of manufacture, it can be seized and you can be arrested and charged with a felony. Whether it is strictly enforced or not is not the point---a ban is a ban. Legislation is legislation. The ban still stands today and has not been challenged.

Okay, but when has this happened?

"New York City, which required rifle owners to register their guns in 1967, banned many of them as assault weapons in 1991; police have since gone knocking on doors, demanding that some people surrender their guns."

As for it still being legal, why has no one challenged it? Where is the next Heller?

 

[HokiePilot]

The NRA had been very skeptical of using the courts to enforce the Second Amendment. They even tried to block the Heller case at one point. The NRA was afraid of bad precedent being set. The case was set up and backed by a non-gun-owning Fellow of the Cato Institute. The backer predicted that by the time the case got to the supreme court, Bush would have made it more conservative. Without a Bush win in 2004, there would have been no Heller.

DC was chosen because there was no need to address the incorporation issue. DC laws are directly accountable to the US Constitution. A day after the Heller decision came out, the NRA, on behalf of a few members, sued a few local governments for their DC style gun bans to settle the incorporation issue. With a Constitutionally-protected individual right and incorporation to the states, issues such as that will be addressed.

Why, when I am ordered to moved to another state, do I have to get rid of personal property to avoid going to jail? Shouldn't I be grandfathered in? I am not.

I am referring to taking normal capacity magazines to CA.

 

[HokiePilot]

Out of all of that though, there is nothing suggesting that he or a Democratic controlled Congress will seize people's legally owned firearms. And proposals and ideas are just the first step in politics, it takes a long way from that to actually becoming law.

As for Heller, here is a pretty interesting argument from two well-known conservative jurists about how the decision is flawed. Agree with them or not, it is an interesting argument.

Criticism of Heller

I agree with Levy in that article. In Roe, the SC pulled a Constitutional Right out of left field. In Heller, they interpreted a sentence. If the supreme court didn't provide that value judgment, there would be multiple cases until the SC narrowed it down to being able to have an abortition after 67 days but not 68. Call it being lazy or practical.

The way that I see it is that Scalia had to include that passage to get a Justice to swing (Kennedy?). While it would be great if each supreme court decision could provide clear guidance, the politics inside the SC require some give and take. The other passage that I have some problems with in the decision is that "dangerous and unusual" guns can be banned. All guns are dangerous and any previously banned gun (e.g. machine guns) becomes unusual.

I have read the entire decision and most of the two dissents, but it has been four months.

 

[QuagmireMcGuire]

And I still love you. You can run, but you can't hide from my love ... :icon_kiss[/B]

Awwwww... my shriveled, cold spinster heart just unthawed a little.

Group hug!

 

[The Chief]

Interesting article, in particular, ammo sales. Coincidently, I went up to Atlantic Guns and they were out of pretty much all ammo that I was looking for. Their take was hunting season then the upcomming election. Anyone had trouble buying 5.56 or .223?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27393833

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

Out of all of that though, there is nothing suggesting that he or a Democratic controlled Congress will seize people's legally owned firearms. And proposals and ideas are just the first step in politics, it takes a long way from that to actually becoming law.

As for Heller, here is a pretty interesting argument from two well-known conservative jurists about how the decision is flawed. Agree with them or not, it is an interesting argument.

Criticism of Heller

While you are correct about bills generally taking awhile to become law we have seen recently that it doesn't take long for something to get passed when it's "vitally" important.(read:bailout package)

There has been a lot said here that supports Obama being against gun ownership and quite frankly you might be correct in saying that they won't be knocking on any doors very soon. But a possible 8 years is a long chunk and America is not immune from such legislation.

The crats have some nutty ideas about gun control that are not effective at controlling gun crime or crime in general. To know that they might simply put a bunch of restrictions and make owners lock up their guns leads me to think that we'll see more crime towards people who have their hands tied behind their back when it comes to defending themselves.

Also having laws like having locks on all weapons are inherently stupid considering that they are near impossible to enforce. There aren't enough resources for Johnny Law to come a knocking to check your guns.

But you'll probably see them come knocking at the end of the month when they need to pass out tickets so they can meet their quota.

Anyways let's all relax with a little schoolhouse rock. :icon_smil

 

[A4sForever]

Meanderings about guns post-election 2008

Here's a somewhat interesting article from Frank Brownell -- yes, THAT Brownell ... it's offered from an "insiders" viewpoint ... FYI and for discussion :

Frank Talk about Guns

 

[Junkball]

What a fine 1,000 word article.

Check your link, A4's it looks like an interesting read.

 

[A4sForever]

Check your link, A4's it looks like an interesting read.

Yeah, thanks for the head's up ... I guess I cut when I should have copied ... or was it pasted when I should have deleted ... ???