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Gulf of Sidra 1989 Audio
- Thread starter DanMa1156
- Start date
This was also the time frame that Libya was trying to claim all of the Gulf of Sidra as territorial waters. They published a "line of death". They said that if any U.S. ship or aircraft crossed this line, they would destroy them. Since it was beyond the internationally recognized 12 miles, the U.S. pushed the issue (as it does with every country making these type of claims). So when the Libyans came out toward the F-14s, there was already an implied hostile intent. Their repeated attempts to intercept as the the F-14s turned away was considered confirmation of this intent and therefore considered a hostile act.
TIme magazine as source?
LOL, I read the source and it's Time magazine....beware of taking what press says for Gospel, especially on military matters. That article is riddled with errors...RIO doesn't have ability to arm jet nor fire Sidewinders...it also has Floggers "chasing" Tomcats....hardly authoritative. It is laughable and full of disinformation especially on comm intercept capability of E-2. Other assets have that mission.
DanMav1156 said:
LOL, I read the source and it's Time magazine....beware of taking what press says for Gospel, especially on military matters. That article is riddled with errors...RIO doesn't have ability to arm jet nor fire Sidewinders...it also has Floggers "chasing" Tomcats....hardly authoritative. It is laughable and full of disinformation especially on comm intercept capability of E-2. Other assets have that mission.
heyjoe said:
Ah yes, I wasn't only taking from that TIME article, I did see alot of errors in it... but I was taking it from other sources, which may very well have used the media reports of the day - not too much information at my school, or for that matter the overy accurate information on the net regarding this incident. Nonetheless, I think it's interesting and I thought listening to the audio was great.
US Navy 4, Libya 0
Audios like that are great to be able to try to relive the moment. It is hard to recreate episodes like that from open press. Intercepts between fighters like that don't leave a lot of time for discussion with closure rates in excess of 1000 knots and long reach of meduim range missiles. Due to classification of some assets used to pull the total picture together, you have to wing it from what's out there so that sometimes leaves a few question marks. Bottom line: US Navy 4, Libya 0.
DanMav1156 said:
Audios like that are great to be able to try to relive the moment. It is hard to recreate episodes like that from open press. Intercepts between fighters like that don't leave a lot of time for discussion with closure rates in excess of 1000 knots and long reach of meduim range missiles. Due to classification of some assets used to pull the total picture together, you have to wing it from what's out there so that sometimes leaves a few question marks. Bottom line: US Navy 4, Libya 0.
F-14 vs Libyan MIG
Here is a link to a video that has the audio spliced to some video cut scenes and narration of the engagement, with a brief explanation of that weapons hold thing that was tripping people up. The video really gives it the extra dimension that makes you appreciate the speed of it all.
Here is a link to a video that has the audio spliced to some video cut scenes and narration of the engagement, with a brief explanation of that weapons hold thing that was tripping people up. The video really gives it the extra dimension that makes you appreciate the speed of it all.
That is, of course, why the comm intercepts were attributed to the Hummer. I'm not so sure that was just bad journalism. Some of us have a pretty good idea who and what was acting behind the scenes. I have had personal experience with helpful interested parties. Not even my CO knew what had contributed to my tactical genius.heyjoe said:
B
Blutonski816
Guest
raptor10 said:
even though it is mostly stock footage put together...
hahaha
Raining on the parade
I would hate to rain on the love parade but I know someone who was there as a helpful interested party (I flew a good bit of a deployment with him) and the above is nowhere near the truth. In his words "Those poor b@st@rds didn't have a .....", an exact quote.
An F-14 pilot in my first squadron also critiqued their perfomance, "The moment the first missile left the rail it went stupid because they screwed up.....they went looking for a fight and got one".
After talking to both of the guys I knew extensively about what happened, I am a little skeptical of all the 'atta boys'.
DanMav1156 said:
I would hate to rain on the love parade but I know someone who was there as a helpful interested party (I flew a good bit of a deployment with him) and the above is nowhere near the truth. In his words "Those poor b@st@rds didn't have a .....", an exact quote.
An F-14 pilot in my first squadron also critiqued their perfomance, "The moment the first missile left the rail it went stupid because they screwed up.....they went looking for a fight and got one".
After talking to both of the guys I knew extensively about what happened, I am a little skeptical of all the 'atta boys'.
wink said:
Thanks for the new sig line.
Spoiling for a fight?
In that case, you need to know what happened in between the two air-to-air encounters...so they we were..fat dumb and happy ashore at Oceana when the call comes to sortie NOW to Gulf of Sidra in early 1986. USS Saratoga and USS Coral Sea were already just north of Libya and being challenged by Libyan fighters on a daily basis. So why would the CoC want a third carrier? Kadahfy had proclaimed the infamous line of death and challenged the Navy to cross it so President Reagan was turning up the heat. So USS America was called to sortie early and join the other two carriers on station. We got our jets ready for war (not typical workup stuff; we changed high time engines and swept RHAW gear and other "stuff"). It was obvious that big time "saber rattling" was ahead. Once on station, 6th Fleet himself (3 Star) pops into the Ready Room and tells us we can do whatever we need to do if Libyans get aggressive....of course he's dressed down and only skipper recognizes the scruffy looking dude he tells us that...his pilot turns to him afterwards and saws WHO WAS that? At any rate, shortly afterwards, same skipper and his pilot are on CAP south of "Line of Death" when skipped picks up high speed contact heading towards them from in country where MiG-25 Foxbats are based..they talk up challenge and vector south on their own....then pilot spots a vertical contrail.....they realize the radar contact must be an SA-5 and retire northwards via Spilt S while other assrts confirm their diagnosis...there just happens to be a A-7 nearby carrying HARM on its first deployment who decides to use the opportunity to "OP Check" his new store and subsequently validates its capability by nailing the SA-5 Square pair tracker....but that's not all..game was on and before the sun rose, Harpoon saw its combat debut as well when A-6 Intruder from VA-34 made short work of Libyan patrol boats trying to intercept the Navy assets in the Gulf. That was in March 1986....thought that sent a message, but we had to go back in April and take out land targets before they got the message.
wink said:
In that case, you need to know what happened in between the two air-to-air encounters...so they we were..fat dumb and happy ashore at Oceana when the call comes to sortie NOW to Gulf of Sidra in early 1986. USS Saratoga and USS Coral Sea were already just north of Libya and being challenged by Libyan fighters on a daily basis. So why would the CoC want a third carrier? Kadahfy had proclaimed the infamous line of death and challenged the Navy to cross it so President Reagan was turning up the heat. So USS America was called to sortie early and join the other two carriers on station. We got our jets ready for war (not typical workup stuff; we changed high time engines and swept RHAW gear and other "stuff"). It was obvious that big time "saber rattling" was ahead. Once on station, 6th Fleet himself (3 Star) pops into the Ready Room and tells us we can do whatever we need to do if Libyans get aggressive....of course he's dressed down and only skipper recognizes the scruffy looking dude he tells us that...his pilot turns to him afterwards and saws WHO WAS that? At any rate, shortly afterwards, same skipper and his pilot are on CAP south of "Line of Death" when skipped picks up high speed contact heading towards them from in country where MiG-25 Foxbats are based..they talk up challenge and vector south on their own....then pilot spots a vertical contrail.....they realize the radar contact must be an SA-5 and retire northwards via Spilt S while other assrts confirm their diagnosis...there just happens to be a A-7 nearby carrying HARM on its first deployment who decides to use the opportunity to "OP Check" his new store and subsequently validates its capability by nailing the SA-5 Square pair tracker....but that's not all..game was on and before the sun rose, Harpoon saw its combat debut as well when A-6 Intruder from VA-34 made short work of Libyan patrol boats trying to intercept the Navy assets in the Gulf. That was in March 1986....thought that sent a message, but we had to go back in April and take out land targets before they got the message.
