• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

GUARD to the US-Mexico Border ???

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Bush Weighs Deploying Guard to U.S. Border
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]May 12, 11:02 PM (ET)

By LOLITA C. BALDOR

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush, trying to build momentum for an overhaul of the nation's immigration laws, is considering plans to shore up the Mexican border with National Guard troops paid for by the federal government, according to senior administration officials.
One defense official said military leaders believe the number of troops required could range from 3,500 to 10,000, depending on the final plan. Another administration official cautioned that the 10,000 figure was too high.

The officials insisted on anonymity since no decision has been announced.

The president was expected to reveal his plans in an address Monday at 8 p.m. EDT. It will be the first time he has used the Oval Office for a domestic policy speech - a gesture intended to underscore the importance he places on the divisive immigration issue.

.... the rest of the story .... http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060513/D8HIKOU00.html

*****************************************************************************************************
This is not without precedent. One of the reasons I thought the current situation interesting was a comparison of the tepid response today to a massive northward "migration" with the much more aggressive 1916 response when another President mobilized the National Guard in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. This mobilization was in response to the relatively small cross-border raid @ Columbus, NM, by some 500-600 Villaistas. Six months later more than 110,000 Guardsmen were deployed along the US-Mexico border.

A list of some of the junior officers deployed reads like a "who's-who" of the US Army in the 1900's:

One of the new 2LT's sent to the border was Omar Nelson Bradley, 14th Infantry. From September 1915 to May 1916, he was at Douglas where he lived "in absolutely miserable circumstances." He kept busy operating the target range, coaching the regimental baseball team and "participated in an epic experimental 300-mile 'motorized hike' with a convoy of trucks." He was moved to Nogales from July to September 1916, and then to Yuma from September 1916 to 21 May 1917. He said: "Duty at Yuma was miserable :) . Clearly there was to be no war with Mexico; the official camp duties were routine and boring, Yuma was primitive and dusty. Our major diversion was the tedious round of formal calls on superiors for tea or coffee. A few weeks after Mary and I settled in, I applied for a transfer.... Any place seemed preferable to Yuma, Arizona' " [Bradley, Omar N., and Blair, Clay, A General's Life, Simon and Schuster, NY, 1983.]

Other young officers who were to gain prominence and who were stationed along the border were: Matthew B. Ridgway (2d Lieut. At Eagle Pass, Texas, in 1917), Carl A. Spaatz (aviator with 1916 Pershing Expedition), Lucian K. Truscott (2d Lieut. with 17th Cavalry at Douglas in 1917), Jonathan M. Wainwright (Capt., 1st Cavalry, in 1916), Walton H. Walker (2d Lieut. in Texas in 1914), William J. "Wild Bill" Donovan (WHO WAS ASKING ABOUT "WILD BILL'S" MILITARY SERVICE ON ANOTHER THREAD ??? -- with NY National Guard during 1916 Pershing Expedition), Hugh A. Drum (aide-de camp to General Funston in 1914), George S. Patton, (8th Cavalry and aide-de-camp to General Pershing in 1916), Robert L. Eichelberger (Lieut. in 1911 with 10th Infantry, and in 1915 with 22d Infantry), Leslie J. McNair (with 1916 Pershing Expedition), George C. Marshall ( a 1st Lieut.. in Texas Maneuver Division in 1911), Alexander McCarroll Patch (1st Lieut. in 18th Infantry in 1910), and George E. Straterneyer (2d Lieut. 7th Infantry at Douglas in 1914).

Very heavy company, indeed. :)
[/FONT]
 

HueyCobra8151

Well-Known Member
pilot
...Duty at Yuma was miserable...

Yep...

We wouldn't need many troops to patrol the border if they were utilizing motion sensors and UAV aerial reconnaisance as well as regular patrols.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
One of my buddies put it this way to me... we're one of the few countries where the military doesn't patrol the border...
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
Having a couple former classmates that work Border Patrol, something has to be done. They are the most overtaxed, underappreciated, politically-hampered agency in the Federal Law Enforcement community.
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Lawman said:
Having a couple former classmates that work Border Patrol, something has to be done. They are the most overtaxed, underappreciated, politically-hampered agency in the Federal Law Enforcement community.

Amen. Nothing like doing a job the leadership doesn't actually want you to do. Show me a politician with power that actually will say "patrol and secure the borders". They won't, they'll "lose the Hispanic vote".
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
Fly Navy said:
Amen. Nothing like doing a job the leadership doesn't actually want you to do. Show me a politician with power that actually will say "patrol and secure the borders". They won't, they'll "lose the Hispanic vote".

They have actually had people further up the chain tell the patrol officers not to respond to anything they didnt observe themselves in some places. Apparently pandering to the Hispanic population by directly negating Law Enforcements biggest tool of discover (reporting) is a great way to conduct buisness for the Politicians in office.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Fly Navy said:
Amen. Nothing like doing a job the leadership doesn't actually want you to do. Show me a politician with power that actually will say "patrol and secure the borders". They won't, they'll "lose the Hispanic vote".
I agree that we need to totally secure the border, but I wonder if the guard is the best solution. Presumably with all the b!tching about guard units being called up all the time to go to OEF/OIF, the guard seems overtaxed as it is. Plus, I'd like to see the plan for how they're going to run a 24/7 operation with guys who're only supposed to do their 1 weekend a month thing. Why not just use/augment the border patrol who is an already establish agency that happens to specialize in border security ops already?

Brett
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Brett327 said:
I agree that we need to totally secure the border, but I wonder if the guard is the best solution. Presumably with all the b!tching about guard units being called up all the time to go to OEF/OIF, the guard seems overtaxed as it is. Plus, I'd like to see the plan for how they're going to run a 24/7 operation with guys who're only supposed to do their 1 weekend a month thing. Why not just use/augment the border patrol who is an already establish agency that happens to specialize in border security ops already?

Brett

Oh I agree, Border Patrol needs more. Talk about the under appreciated ******* children of law enforcement.
 

dodge

You can do anything once.
pilot
The solution:
1. Hire all the illegals in the country to build a wall across the border.
2. As the wall is completed make sure they are on the southern side.
3. Pay them in cash to avoid taxes.

Time to build: 2 weeks.
Cost: $175.00
 
T

TXHusker05

Guest
The point about motion sensors and UAV's is actually a really good one. The UAV can find a vehicle and read its license plate from like 1000 feet. Put a couple dozen above the border, covering the really danger zones for illegal immigration and we will be fine. Heck, a couple night version or thermal video sets in one of those and nothing will get past.

BUT, you still need a well funded and supported Border Patrol to go get the people and to enforce the laws. A UAV and motion sensors can only do so much, people on the ground is needed. Putting the National Guard on the border seems like it would be argued more than funding and supporting the Border Patrol. I think one way to do this would merge the US Customs and Border Protection and its mission into Immigration and Customs Enforcement. ICE is responsible for the actual security while the USBP is responsible for protecting and stopping illegal immigration. It honestly seems like the duties run together. Both are under Homeland Security now but Border Patrol is just a small arm of the Customs and Border Protection.

ICE gets more funding compared to CBP when their mission is the same. Merge the two and then the intelligence aspect of ICE and Special Agents of the Border Patrol can work together, you'd have a damn strong Immigration agency. The National Guard is not the answer unless there is a strong security risk.
 

The Chief

Retired
Contributor
A4sForever said:
... ]William J. "Wild Bill" Donovan[/B] (WHO WAS ASKING ABOUT "WILD BILL'S" MILITARY SERVICE ON ANOTHER THREAD ??? -- with NY National Guard during 1916 Pershing Expedition) ....

Indeed

"Wild Bill", CMOH WW-I, Founded OSS, forerunner of CIA.
 

Coota0

Registered User
None
The National Guard might not be the answer but can you imagine this:

Juan steps out of the Rio Grande,
"Pablo we've made it through the river, we're in America!"
A tired Pablo looks around cautiously,
"Hurry, Juan, the border patrol could be here any minute"
As Pablo and Juan come over a small rise they discover a Kiowa Warrior hovering in front of them.
"Pablo I think we're ****ed."

Then again at least some people actually call the border patrol, a friend has a ranch just north of the Big Bend area, if he sees an "immigrant" he looks forward to target practice until the Sheriff can get there, the kicker is my buddy is Mexican.
 

Bevo16

Registered User
pilot
Putting the National Guard on the border is like giving a guys with AIDS a box of condoms.

It's to damn late.

If we want the illegal mexicans out of the country, it's pretty easy to find them. If you gave me a team of 5 guys with badges, guns, and a big bus I'll fill it by the end of the day and drive it back to Tiajuana to drop off the contents. Why spend billions of dollars in military assets and manpower to do a job that could be done in the cities and towns much easier and cheaper?

Practical example:

To catch 20-50 illegals crossing the border in So-Cal, the Border Patrol uses groups of 20-40 agents 10-15 vehicles and a helicopter. That's an expensive operation.

You could take one agent to El-Centro, dress him up like a rancher and have him pass the word that he is looking for people to pick watermelons. In an hour, he would have 50 illegals sign up. Instead driving to a watermelon field, put them in a detention facility for a week or so, and take them back to Mexico. Cheap, simple, effective.

Putting the military on the border is a cop-out. We have an agency that is responsible for border security. The department of homeland security was created for this exact issue. If they can't do the job under the the conditions that exist today, give them them tools that they need. More people, more tools, less restrictions, whatever it takes.

Just because the military has the people with the skill set to do a job does not mean that we should be doing it. We have enough on our plate right now, other agancies need to pull their weight.
 

HueyCobra8151

Well-Known Member
pilot
Since this is sort of devolving into a discussion on illegal immigration in general, it is really a 3 part process:


1. Enforce laws on the hiring and employing of illegal aliens. With no work available, desire to come here will shrink.

2. Remove all people who are currently living here illegally.

3. Physically protect our borders - which as already noted could probably be done much better by the Border Patrol than anyone else.
 
Top