Grunt to Pilot

[Highlander51]

Hey everyone, this is my first post on here as a new member, I have a few questions for the pilots amongst you and anyone else who wants to chime in. I’m an E6 and I’ll commission this time next year, I’ll be at roughly 9 years at that time. My background on the enlisted side is infantry for 4 years and embassy duty/recruiting for two more. I’m attempting to go for an air contract because that’s what I want to do, there are other reasons but that’s the main one. Have any of you had any prior enlisted guys with you throughout your time in flight school or the fleet and if so how did they do? I’m looking to see how good or bad others like me have done so I have an idea of what to expect going forward and what your perception of prior enlisted pilots has been. I look forward to hearing from you guys, semper fi!

 

[croakerfish]

There are lots of prior-E pilots. In my fleet tour we had a Department Head who had been an E-8.

 

[mad dog]

...and what your perception of prior enlisted pilots has been.

Shit hot. ?

From what I remember in the mid 1980s and early 1990s...every prior enlisted pilot that I knew was shit hot. Many had come through the NAVCAD program and many [if not most] got jets.

 

[joe dirt]

I’m a prior enlisted guy. Did 4 years, got out and went to college to get the enlisted stink off me,(kidding...sort of) and came back in to fly in support of Marines on the ground.

I’d suggest that you go into TBS and flight school with the understanding that your life experiences are different from most of the guys/gals around you. You’ll only alienate yourself if you play the prior card or offer, “ back when I was a grunt...” too frequently.

Be kind and patient with the youngsters and they’ll come up to you for your advice if they feel you are approachable.

When it comes to flying in the fleet I’d say prior E guys give you the same quality spread as everyone else. We’ve had prior E-6s who couldn’t make Aircraft Commander in 4 Years, and dudes that go to WTI in 2 1/2 years. So when you get to the fleet study hard and have a good attitude. You probably won’t be the smartest guy there but you can work harder than everybody if you chose to do so.

Being a team player is important, your squadron mates will notice if you stay around to help out other guys for their events and that will bode well for you.

The best ability you can have in early fleet life is availability...the flying and systems stuff will come eventually.

 

[Brett327]

Hey everyone, this is my first post on here as a new member, I have a few questions for the pilots amongst you and anyone else who wants to chime in. I’m an E6 and I’ll commission this time next year, I’ll be at roughly 9 years at that time. My background on the enlisted side is infantry for 4 years and embassy duty/recruiting for two more. I’m attempting to go for an air contract because that’s what I want to do, there are other reasons but that’s the main one. Have any of you had any prior enlisted guys with you throughout your time in flight school or the fleet and if so how did they do? I’m looking to see how good or bad others like me have done so I have an idea of what to expect going forward and what your perception of prior enlisted pilots has been. I look forward to hearing from you guys, semper fi!

Prior E6 here as well, now Navy Captain going into Major Command. Be humble, and don't forget where you came from. The enlisted folks will put you on a pedestal. You won't be prepared for how big a deal that is until you're in the middle of it, so carry that torch proudly. Every officer starts out at the same level, but you will have the advantage of experience. Use that to help your peers understand how things work, not to advantage yourself.

You'll be awesome.

 

[Waveoff]

Our squadron's last training officer was a Marine rifleman, made the switch to Navy side and VP community (NFO as well). Great guy, proves it can be done, and you won't be the first or last. Wish you luck.

Some unsolicited: It will be weird being at the same level as the new and young officers with hardly any time in a uniform outside of training units, some will be brand spanking new out of TBS or OCS. Whichever community you end up in, don't be a stranger to the JOs and JOPA life. Definitely saw the gamut of piors in flight school; some were cool and hung out and studied with the group, some were busy with family life but still came off as any other good dude, and there were the one's that couldn't stop talking about their prior time and had some kind of leadership complex. Best wishes in getting an air contract.

 

[Jim123]

I've got a couple of metaphors for you, from me as a non-prior E (I was straight from civvy street to Navy OCS).

One of my prior E OCS classmates helped me out with making my rack the way they wanted us to make them. It sounds silly now, getting the corners right and everything nice and taut, but this little task was a real pain in the ass at that moment and we were pretty far along in the program for me to be getting stuck on this one thing. So my friend stopped and took a minute to help me out with a couple things I was doing wrong. He made it look easy but he also showed me how to do it so I wouldn't waste so much time sucking at it.

Another prior E, when we were hashing out who to do which class billets (class leader/aka who gets in trouble first, admin/adjutant, etc.) insisted that the watchbill coordinator really ought to be a prior enlisted because you really needed to be good with MS Excel to handle a watchbill (???). No kidding, this guy really believed that- and the implication being that those of us who'd had lives and jobs after high school (gone to real college, managed to pay rent and not starve to death, even get picked jun for OCS), somehow we'd be in over our heads with this one and bring the whole class down. Uhhh okeee there.

Now, some more food for thought- I wouldn't extrapolate the first anecdote as someone who turned out to be a fantastic officer, but that one action is important because good leaders and teammates fix problems and remove obstacles that are interfering with their subordinates' and peers' ability to do their jobs. As for the second guy, he wasn't a bad guy by any means, he was actually a good guy who said something really really dumb.

You'll probably see a lot of yourself in both examples. They're pretty trivial in the big scheme of things, the fleet is not OCS is not TBS, but the mentality that can lead you to one action or another is what's important here. We all make mistakes but we also do a pretty job when we try hard to be our best.

Looking back, could prior and non-prior have better appreciated where each other came from? Sure, of course, but sometimes good things take time to really understand.

You're gonna be great!

 

[mad dog]

...One of my prior E OCS classmates helped me out with making my rack the way they wanted us to make them. It sounds silly now, getting the corners right and everything nice and taut, but this little task was a real pain in the ass at that moment and we were pretty far along in the program for me to be getting stuck on this one thing. So my friend stopped and took a minute to help me out with a couple things I was doing wrong. He made it look easy but he also showed me how to do it so I wouldn't waste so much time sucking at it.

Similar story here. One of my prior E AOCS classmates [and roommates] really helped me out during AOCS...ridiculously above and beyond the call of duty. Gary [a prior enlisted Marine] personally tutored me regarding the following:

1. Military
a. Marching
b. Rifle drill
c. RLP [room, locker & personnel inspection]

2. Academics
a. Navigation*
b. Navigation*
c. Navigation*

*I failed the NAV phase exam [by a shit ton] due to not being able to operate the whiz wheel fast enough. Gary spent hours [and more hours] tutoring me regarding getting up to speed on the whiz wheel for the NAV final exam which I passed.

In sum, I probably would NOT have made it through AOCS without Gary’s help. Gary went on to fly the S-3 in the fleet and the last I heard he was flying for the FBI.

Gary...if you’re out there...THANK YOU, SIR!

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Hey everyone, this is my first post on here as a new member, I have a few questions for the pilots amongst you and anyone else who wants to chime in. I’m an E6 and I’ll commission this time next year, I’ll be at roughly 9 years at that time. My background on the enlisted side is infantry for 4 years and embassy duty/recruiting for two more. I’m attempting to go for an air contract because that’s what I want to do, there are other reasons but that’s the main one. Have any of you had any prior enlisted guys with you throughout your time in flight school or the fleet and if so how did they do? I’m looking to see how good or bad others like me have done so I have an idea of what to expect going forward and what your perception of prior enlisted pilots has been. I look forward to hearing from you guys, semper fi!

I have worked with many prior E turned O, with the ones I worked with often there was a night and day difference. either they were some of the best officers I worked with and used their prior E experience to mentor and guide the division, they were able to understand what it was like to be and E washing out the bilge and other menial but essential task, but then you have the other group, the ones who because they were a prior E think they know it all, instead of mentoring and guiding you get they "when I was an E we did it this way and so we will do it this way", well procedures change, or the old "when I was an E I had to do that too, you need to just suck it up".

You have some great advice here from prior E's turned O's.

 

[Griz882]

I did it in ‘86 but I jumped ship from the Corps to the Navy. As so many others have noted it can be done but it is a very different route and the learning curve will be mind-blowing. Still, you should be ready. If you are a family man you need to prepare your family to see flight school like a really long “float” with you working hard. Best of luck and Semper Fi!

 

[RoarkJr.]

Prior E6 crayon-eater about start primary here. Also coming up on 9 years. I was a winger before and did MECEP.

I second the “not being the smartest guy in the room but you can work harder” mentality. What I noticed with myself and other Marine priors is that we know what it takes to get us to where we need to be academically. We’re not the 22, fresh out of college and acing every test people. But that doesn’t matter.

We had one navy prior enlisted guy who liked to talk shit about Marines, constantly trying to measure himself up against the other priors, claimed he could bench 350 during a zoom class. Don’t be that guy.

We have a prior grunt who was close to getting attrited for pink sheets/apparent argument with an O-5 about something. Dude certainly isn’t the smartest but he is a good guy for sure.

As for myself I leaned heavily on my study group that had mostly non-priors. It’s taken a lot of work and dedication but I have fun with it anyway so it’s been a blast. As long as you understand that you have to be pretty much all-in on learning this stuff, you be fine.

 

[Highlander51]

What’s the attrition rate been so far for your class? I know you said you’re about to start primary so you’ve still got a little ways to go but just curious to see how many guys/gals have been dropped so far. Also, how do you think your time in the wing benefited you? I ask because I’m coming out of the fleet as an 03 and have had little to no exposure to the wing. Thanks, and good luck in primary!

 

[RoarkJr.]

What’s the attrition rate been so far for your class? I know you said you’re about to start primary so you’ve still got a little ways to go but just curious to see how many guys/gals have been dropped so far. Also, how do you think your time in the wing benefited you? I ask because I’m coming out of the fleet as an 03 and have had little to no exposure to the wing. Thanks, and good luck in primary!

We only had one attrite in my NIFE class. We had quite a bit more get dropped to other classes for failing tests (around 6) but they ultimately made it. None of them were Marine priors. I’m waiting to class up for primary so I am in the holding platoon at MATSG-21.

Being from the wing gives me a general sense of familiarity with most things but that’s about it. Enlisted side maintenance things are still pretty “Marine Corps” but more emphasis is placed on quals, or, functional as opposed to designated leadership.

Other than that a lot of it is about knowing yourself. If you are like me and navigation/aerodynamics etc. isn’t necessarily intuitive, you’ll know that you need to go the extra mile with studying.

 

[Pags]

What’s the attrition rate been so far for your class? I know you said you’re about to start primary so you’ve still got a little ways to go but just curious to see how many guys/gals have been dropped so far. Also, how do you think your time in the wing benefited you? I ask because I’m coming out of the fleet as an 03 and have had little to no exposure to the wing. Thanks, and good luck in primary!

Exposure to the Wing really won't help you in flight school. Wing experience will come into play when in the Fleet; a guy who came from a squadron will have a less steep learning curve about who/how/why is doing what downstairs. That said, you'll be fine when you get to a squadron. Leading folks is leading folks.

Flight school attrition isn't something to sweat. If you've made it this far as an O3 you'll be fine as long as you have a good attitude and don't gaff off the academics (and since you're an O3 you already know how to study for govt tests). The biggest thing that seems to gets guys is aeronautical adaptability but if there's not much you can do about that if there's a root physiological cause. But if you've ridden in the back of rotorcraft with few windows and 24 of your closest friends and not gotten sick you'll be fine.

 

[Highlander51]

Aviation adaptability is the root of my best aviation experience thus far. During a training exercise at 29 Palms we boarded a CH-53 and took off for a simulated attack, midflight one of the guys across from me went ghost white and the crew chief told the pilot. The pilot then promptly began to gain and lose altitude, the guy threw up in his helmet, then put his chuke filled helmet on and carried out the attack once we landed. That’s the funniest story I have from the marine corps, but I’ve done 5-6 helo insertions at this point and have never had any issues with air sickness so hopefully that will hold true.