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Greenland

sevenhelmet said:
It sounds like some people here are trying to get to an “ends justify the means” conclusion.

They don’t. This is lunacy. Trying to rationalize it might make you feel better, but will not change the reality.
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If this isn't directed at me, in part, then feel free to disregard. If it is...I'm not trying to justify the means. I am just asking about the ends without regard to the means. That's why it's hypothetical. It's a white carded LFE. Just interested if people think the benefits outweigh the costs regardless of administrative vehicle used to get there. Personally, I'm not sure they do but I'm undecided.
 
WhiskeySierra6 said:
If this isn't directed at me, in part, then feel free to disregard. If it is...I'm not trying to justify the means. I am just asking about the ends without regard to the means. That's why it's hypothetical. It's a white carded LFE. Just interested if people think the benefits outweigh the costs regardless of administrative vehicle used to get there. Personally, I'm not sure they do but I'm undecided.
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No, I don‘t believe they do. Seen in the light of reality, the calculus is far worse.
 
sevenhelmet said:
It sounds like some people here are trying to get to an “ends justify the means” conclusion.

They don’t. This is lunacy. Trying to rationalize it might make you feel better, but will not change the reality.
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Broadly, I disagree. As has been noted other administrations have sought expansion through various means. This just happens to be the worst attempt because of Trump’s rhetorical style and penchant for causing churn and sowing chaos. It’s amusing to debate, and kind of like watching a horror movie, but in the end nothing will come of it.
 
Griz882 said:
Broadly, I disagree. As has been noted other administrations have sought expansion through various means. This just happens to be the worst attempt because of Trump’s rhetorical style and penchant for causing churn and sowing chaos. It’s amusing to debate, and kind of like watching a horror movie, but in the end nothing will come of it.
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Something will come of it. At minimum, our allies will regard us with more suspicion, and be less likely to help us in future. This could also defang NATO, even if it doesn’t result in a war of aggression started by us. There are other potential consequences, but those three possibilities spring to mind first.

Thinking nothing will come of it is what got us to this point of idiocracy, and gave people like Stephen Miller the reins of power.
 
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Brett327 said:
Something that was brought up on another platform is that we would immediately lose access to every base we have in Europe, or at least be in a very precarious position there. Of course, none of this has been thought through by the WH. Rota, Moron, Aviano - gone, Naples - gone, Sig - gone, Souda Bay - gone, every base in Germany and the UK - gone, BMD bases in Poland & Romania - gone, Keflavik - gone, EUCOM HQ - gone. All that for some fucking mineral rights? Complete absurdity.
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The Scandinavian countries nuke up. Poland nukes up. Germany nukes up. Weapons proliferate.

It's pretty amazing that the weapons haven't proliferated much since Hiroshima. Alliances in the Atlantic and Pacific are absolutely a part of that success story.
 
robav8r said:
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What point are you trying to make with this?

We already have the ability to build whatever we need to on Greenland and station forces there. It’s an independent territory of a NATO ally, and we have treaty rights to basically do what we need. NATO also does a ton of work up there to ensure freedom of the seas and keep Russia at bay.

There’s no tactical or strategic advantage to taking control of the island. All that would accomplish is put more of the structural burden directly on us (and less on Europe, which is interesting when you consider this administration’s position on European defense spending.) As a bonus, you’d destabilize NATO and piss off our allies (again).

This is kindergarten-level foreign policy. Honestly, Putin couldn’t have dreamt of a more permissive POTUS than he has in Donald J. Trump.
 
robav8r said:
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I sort of halfway rushed the C130 outfit flying out of Scotia, New York with the ski birds. Back then they were just doing the Greenland ice mission, in theory just supporting research on the ice cap, but no doubt other stuff.

Camp Century was quite the project:

www.popularmechanics.com

NASA Found a Secret Military Base Buried 100 Feet Deep in Greenland’s Ice Shelf

The base is abandoned, but the U.S. Army left some waste behind.
www.popularmechanics.com www.popularmechanics.com

Known as “Project Iceworm,” the plan was for Camp Century to house ballistic missiles under the Greenland ice. An additional 52,000 square miles of tunnels were planned—enough to fit 600 missiles. It would require 60 launch centers to be built, and would be manned by 11,000 soldiers living full-time in the city under the ice.
 
taxi1 said:
I sort of halfway rushed the C130 outfit flying out of Scotia, New York with the ski birds. Back then they were just doing the Greenland ice mission, in theory just supporting research on the ice cap, but no doubt other stuff.
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I had 2 former HC-6 squadron mates leave the Navy at MOS and both received ANG pilot appointments with that unit - both retired as AF O-5s and had a great career there.

Their Arctic Hercs are frequent visitors to Alpena, Michigan.

Here I am sharing the flight line with one of their tails ..

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While we are on topic of Greenland, a great scene from the HBO series The Young Pope - Jude Law playing a fictional Pius XIII meeting the Prime Minister of Greenland...

 
robav8r said:
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sevenhelmet said:
What point are you trying to make with this?

We already have the ability to build whatever we need to on Greenland and station forces there.
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That's been the very well-known reality since the Soviets started testing ICBM's in the late 50's, and it is also the reason why we've had this giant ass radar there for a while now. Think of it as an AEGIS on steroids, constantly staring at the sky looking for threats.

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