Greenland

[number9]

I’ve been following this via another news source and the situation is a mess. Basically, when Great Britain declared sovereignty over British Columbia in 1846, it never signed treaties with the native people in the region, and so they technically never surrendered their land rights. But that didn’t stop governments from handing parcels of land to settlers, municipalities, and federal agencies anyway, which built a new property system right on top of the old one. Because government proclamations carry official weight the court allows that land acknowledgment exercises (often heard here in the U.S. at academic venues) that mention “unceded” lands could carry legal weight.

Here in the U.S. we (luckily) managed to avoid this by recognizing tribal governments existed and getting them (usually by force) to cede lands in exchange for money, goods, and or reservations. Not exactly nice, but theoretically legal.

The English tradition of fuckery is a long and sordid one... though our treatment of native peoples isn't much better. Sure we signed treaties, but we usually just reneged on them when it was convenient for us.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Why should they vote on it? Because the bully American president thinks they should?

A majority portion of the population up there is native to the region. Based on how we treat native people, why should they want to align under the US flag?

Finally, what is the advantage for us in the USA? Are we going to go out there with hairdryers or something and melt the ice cap to get at minerals? Are we preparing to invade Iceland and Norway next?

This is ridiculous. We should leave Greenland the fuck alone.

Are you protesting the possibility of the purchase of Greenland (which was considered during the Presidential terms of Johnson, Wilson, FD Roosevelt, Eisenhower, and Nixon) or is this more historical protesting Sewards Icebox? In other words, this is far from the first time the US contemplated adding Greenland.

Some history on wikipedia.

Proposed United States acquisition of Greenland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Brett327]

this is far from the first time the US contemplated adding Greenland.

The difference is that this is the first time that one NATO ally has implied that it would take it by force from another NATO ally.

 

[taxi1]

which was considered during the Presidential terms of Johnson, Wilson, FD Roosevelt, Eisenhower, and Nixon

How did that work out for them?

 

[sevenhelmet]

Are you protesting the possibility of the purchase of Greenland (which was considered during the Presidential terms of Johnson, Wilson, FD Roosevelt, Eisenhower, and Nixon) or is this more historical protesting Sewards Icebox? In other words, this is far from the first time the US contemplated adding Greenland.

Some history on wikipedia.

Proposed United States acquisition of Greenland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I am pointing out that not only is it unwanted by Greenland’s people (which we should care about if freedom and self-determination are still American values), but it is simply not necessary, as your historical examples point out.

Flouting our values and allies to acquire territory we fundamentally don’t need is a waste of resources.

 

[Griz882]

How did that work out for them?

There’s no harm in asking to buy, but yes, Trump’s rhetorical style has absolutely rattled the Polanyi-based “great transformation” diplomacy types - but they were already dealing with substantial internal and external issues.

 

[taxi1]

There’s no harm in asking to buy, but yes, Trump’s rhetorical style has absolutely rattled the Polanyi-based “great transformation” diplomacy types - but they were already dealing with substantial internal and external issues.

Trump's amoral worldview that everyone has a price to be bought...I often wonder if there are limits to it.

 

[Griz882]

I am pointing out that not only is it unwanted by Greenland’s people (which we should care about if freedom and self-determination are still American values), but it is simply not necessary, as your historical examples point out.

Flouting our values and allies to acquire territory we fundamentally don’t need is a waste of resources.

I absolutely agree that the people of Greenland, not Denmark nor the U.S., are the voices we need to hear. Even if Denmark was willing to sell, the people of Greenland might not want to be purchased.

 

[Griz882]

Trump's amoral worldview that everyone has a price to be bought...I often wonder if there are limits to it.

On the normative political rhetoric level I get exactly what you mean, but the cold ledger of international business actually tells us that everything does, indeed, have a price.

https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/nyheder-analyser-publ/Analyser/55557-extensive-danish-trade-and-investment-relations-with-the-united-states

 

[taxi1]

the cold ledger of international business

There's lots of interesting writing on how the incentive structures of both corporations and sociopaths are identical.

 

[Flash]

The funny part, I live in a state that borders Canada and some people here kind of consider the Canadians cheap welfare layabouts who have nothing to do but park their rented camper vans illegally along coastal roads....I also know plenty of Canadians (all westerners) who think Ottawa is a shit show that can’t accomplish anything…U.S/Canada relations are at a modern low and a healthy chunk of that is Trump’s fault…but Canada hasn’t always been their own best advocate.

Alberta and BC are as polar opposite from Quebec and Ontario as California and NY are opposite of Texas and Florida.

Canadians, especially those in Ontario, have every reason to feel down on the U.S. Trump has been rough in his comments. That said their PM, Carney, does a pretty good job of deflecting Trump while being civil.

The Liberals were going to lose the election last year, badly, with the Conservatives outpolling them two to one through all of 2024 until early January 2025 when they were ~44% to the Liberal's ~20%. Folks were tired of them and particularly Trudeau, but by the end of March Liberal support had more than doubled and the Conservatives lost the election decisively. Why the sudden and unprecedented turnaround? Take a wild guess.

I'll say it again, I don't think most Americans really grasp just how insulting the President's comments are even to those Canadians who are usually natural allies of their conservative cousins south of the border. And it most certainly isn't just limited to Ontarians, my in-laws are all western Canadian and relatively conservative, for Canadians, and their distaste for the rhetoric is palpable and has had them choosing to purposefully avoid American products and even America itself, when before 2025 they were frequent visitors south of the border. Just like Greenland, a mere 10% or so of Canadians actually supper becoming part of the USA and with numbers that low you are in the same neighborhood as moon landing hoax/lizard people believers.

And you may be shocked...shocked, but many Canadians have just as dim a view of Americans as many of your neighbors.

 

[Flash]

Are you protesting the possibility of the purchase of Greenland (which was considered during the Presidential terms of Johnson, Wilson, FD Roosevelt, Eisenhower, and Nixon) or is this more historical protesting Sewards Icebox? In other words, this is far from the first time the US contemplated adding Greenland.

The difference is that this is the first time that one NATO ally has implied that it would take it by force from another NATO ally.

How about we use the analogy of some guys asking your wife on a date, she says no so they shrug their shoulders and move on. Now someone new comes along but won't take no for an answer, telling her they'll give her money but also threatening to kidnap and rape her if she doesn't agree to divorce you and go out with him.

Get it yet?

 

[Brett327]

Hey Randy... I'm sure your wife has been asked on a date before. The President would like to know her current location? He can be very persuasive. He's an excellent negotiator. He also has a gun and a bottle of chloroform.