FY 20 IWC DCO Board

[sparklysquid]

While we wait on the results, let's talk about boosting the chances of DCO selection by enlisting in SELRES. It appears that some of the underlying enlisted ratings for 1815, 1825, and 1835 are CTI, IT, and IS respectively. Let's say one does not get picked up for DCO and while they keep trying, they do the enlisted side for several years (for prior service, assuming they still can due to HYT).

The benefits of this move are as follows:

1. Strengthening your package with rate specific training as well as recent evals that should be glowing, obviously
2. TS clearance, if one does not already have it. This can open doors in the civilian career even if one never gets selected for DCO
3. May (or may not) be eligible for a bonus for affiliation with the SELRES
4. A small amount of extra money for the ADT (and weekend warrior stuff) if the civilian employer offers paid military leave
5. Also, very beneficial things start happening with the clock now:

a. Start accumulating time allowing to achieve 20 qualifying years earlier than otherwise, thus not having to deal with SELRES after 50+ or 55+. Just sit and await retirement while getting more years in the paygrade for the avg of the highest 3 years pay purposes.
b. Enables one to not get dropped from DCO consideration due to the maximum age limit (since each qualifying year adds one year)
c. For some, may allow stacking enough qualifying years before accepting the commission (~8-10 years), so if they 2xFOS for O4, they end up in the sanctuary at 18+ years and have the option to retire as O3 without too much trouble.

Did I miss any of the benefits?

The challenges are as follows:

1. For no prior service or if not affiliated for 6+ years, it is likely one will have to come in as an E3, and can probably put on E4 within 6-12 months. DCO applicants are often seasoned career individuals that achieved significant leadership positions in their day job. Being an E4 will likely be a very humbling experience in the first 4 years in the SELRES for someone in their 30's with solid industry experience, certs, and graduate degree(s). In other words, you basically get yelled at by 25-year-old E5's and you are cleaning or painting 75% of your work time. I've never been in SELRES, how accurate is my impression of this?
2. Possibility of being mobilized out of SELRES and ordered to something like a DDG deploying to the Gulf (as an E4 or E5) for 9-12 months is something to keep in mind and definitely consider before signing up. How likely is it to happen for the CTI, IS, or IT rates in SELRES?

Did I miss any other significant challenges?

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

While we wait on the results, let's talk about boosting the chances of DCO selection

Enlisting means going to boot camp and A school and getting treated like some 18 year-old fresh out of high school in boot despite being a presumably 30+ year-old with lots of education and work experience. It may not be the best option at that age if your ultimate goal is to become an officer and you're enlisted as a means to an end. Then you'll be in that for several years to apply for an officer designator and go through a whole other set of training and qualifications. If you're worrying about things like yelling, yeah I've never seen that personally among reserve units.

If you're willing to be gone for 6-9+ months (because the enlisted training pipeline will be that long) and not expecting to be selected for Navy Reserve DCO, it would arguably be much more efficient to go Air Force Reserve or National Guard if your goal is to be an officer. The Air Force non-rated OTS freeze is supposed to be over in 2020 so it's perfect timing. I don't mention Army or Marines because Army has an age cut-off at 31 or 32 to commission (correct me if I'm mistaken) and Marines is 28. Many DCO applicants are already too old. Maybe Army National Guard is different, but I don't know since I was being recruited for active Army and Army Reserve at the time.

Here's one way chances of selection will be boosted. You know how DCOIC got replaced with ODS? I have no doubt applications will drop by a solid margin. Ask DCOs if they would have gone through if it was always ODS. All the ones I've spoken to and asked except a few said no way, same for the people they spoke to, etc. It's anecdotal, but seriously, at a certain age and a certain place in life, not many people want to be gone for over a month for a secondary job.

Additional consideration since we're talking about IWC: Not only has 2-week DCOIC been replaced by 5-week ODS, CW and IP basic are switching from 8 to 20 weeks. Potential applicants who were already on the fence about 8 weeks will be deterred by 20.

 

[nodropinufaka]

No one yells at you being enlisted.

Cleaning isnt that big of a deal anyway.

I was a first class with an MS and many others were as well.

I know reserve enlisted guys that are attorneys at their day jobs and one enlisted guy who is a college prof.

Hell, the SF Nat guard and PJ Units had guys who were E-5s and were Emergency Department Physicians for their day jobs. I know corpsman enlisted who are nurses, PAs, and HCAs in their civilian profession.

Its the reserves. No one cares about rank much.

On top of that can we just stop with the whole "this guy is a leader in industry" spiel for the IW communities. No one cares. They will be anothe unqualified ensign like the 22 year old kids fresh out of college.

 

[jad3105]

National Guard (Army) is efficient for us older guys, especially if you have an advanced degree. DCO for Army Guard still has 6 weeks ODS at Ft. Benning, GA. Age waivers are pretty routine and you are not limited to your own state's Guard, you can join any. AF Reserve/ Air Guard has a strict age cutoff of 40.

 

[sparklysquid]

Enlisting means going to boot camp and A school and getting treated like some 18 year-old fresh out of high school in boot despite being a presumably 30+ year-old with lots of education and work experience.

For prior service, boot camp is waived. If one was able to qualify to come in as an E6 via the Direct Procurement Enlistment Program (DPEP), that sounds like a better option. It shortens the training pipeline to "only" 24 weeks (IT A-school). Thoughts?

The Air Force non-rated OTS freeze is supposed to be over in 2020 so it's perfect timing.

Sounds interesting. Could you unpack this a little bit?

 

[sparklysquid]

National Guard (Army) is efficient for us older guys, especially if you have an advanced degree. DCO for Army Guard still has 6 weeks ODS at Ft. Benning, GA. Age waivers are pretty routine and you are not limited to your own state's Guard, you can join any. AF Reserve/ Air Guard has a strict age cutoff of 40.

I talked to an Air Force OR a little while back about the SELRES. I was told before they look at any of my stuff, I have to take AFOQT. If I score high enough, only then he'll look at everything else to tell me if I'm even competitive. I'll look into the state Guard after we move to the new state.

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

For prior service, boot camp is waived. If one was able to qualify to come in as an E6 via the Direct Procurement Enlistment Program (DPEP), that sounds like a better option. It shortens the training pipeline to "only" 24 weeks (IT A-school). Thoughts?

This certainly changes things a lot, and that depends on your goals and what you're willing to do. Honestly it may just be worth waiting one board because with the ODS change and the IP/CW basic change it'll most likely reduce the number of applications.

Sounds interesting. Could you unpack this a little bit?

At least back in 2017 IIRC, recruiters were telling me they were not sending applicants for most non-rated, ie. non-flying, AFSCs to OTS because they're good on manning and get enough O-1s from other commissioning programs like ROTC, USAFA, enlisted commissioning programs. If that is still in effect or not, I don't know for sure. Basically they wouldn't open everything up again until 2020. The training pipeline isn't short however. It'll still be 9 week OTS plus your training for your AFSC. The AFSCs I was looking at were 6+ months after OTS. But all I know is from AF recruiters and friends, and everyone's interests and experience is different. If you're interested in the AF, I'd suggest reaching out to AF recruiters, acquaintances, and forums.

 

[sparklysquid]

This certainly changes things a lot, and that depends on your goals and what you're willing to do. Honestly it may just be worth waiting one board because with the ODS change and the IP/CW basic change it'll most likely reduce the number of applications.

Do you really feel a longer training pipeline would deter so many applicants from applying that it would actually make a significant difference in the selection rates? I mean, I hope this would be the case, but it's hard to believe. Everyone who gets a recommendation from this board will be doing 5 weeks ODS and 20+ weeks school afterward. There should not be any surprises since everyone had to sign the MOU. After we find out the statistics for this board, we should already see a decrease in the overall number of applicants. I'm so curious now, lol!

 

[bryanteagle6]

What state are you moving to

 

[sparklysquid]

What state are you moving to

TX, as soon as a suitable employment opportunity is offered

 

[bubblehead]

Do you really feel a longer training pipeline would deter so many applicants from applying that it would actually make a significant difference in the selection rates?

As to your question, the cynic in me says that recruiters -- in an effort to meet their numbers -- gloss over the ODS and other requirements because it would impact interest in the programs, thereby impacting their numbers as not many people can take 5 weeks off of work for ODS. For IP's it's even worse because they have to take off 5 weeks for ODS then another few weeks for IP Basic school.

I'm all for it and it's for the better because we will get a consistent, higher qualify "product."

 

[subreservist]

Recruiters wouldn't gloss over ODS. An applicant may forget or not listen to everything, but it wouldn't be due to the recruiter downplaying it. I'm not sure how anyone could sign up as a civilian off the streets and not expect some type of initial training time commitment.

 

[devilbones]

I have no doubt applications will drop by a solid margin.

I don't think this will be significant at all. I guess we will see the next board what the numbers are like.

 

[bryanteagle6]

I never signed a page 13 or the MOU as stated above until i got to my NOSC. So i could have been in the dark if i hadnt educated myself before hand. Also, my recruiter only answered questions, never offered information. There are alot of misconceptions in the reserves because applicants may think "it can happen" means "it will happen."
Main example: many of the applicants i run into have heard of the units that do flex drills and think it is an automatic option for all. They think they can do 4 weeks straight and be done for the year. Even if your CO would approve that in a unit that diesnt typically do flex drills.... it would be a killer for your fitrep and career long term if you tried to do that often.

 

[sparklysquid]

I never signed a page 13 or the MOU as stated above until i got to my NOSC.

I had my DCO interviews in February of this year. Before they called everyone in one-by-one, they put us in a room for a short powerpoint and a Q&A session. At the end of it, everyone had to sign and turn in an MOU outlining the training pipeline with the corresponding duration for each line item.