FY 18 IWC DCO BOARD

[USNAVY]

You're proving my point. The standards for DCO programs have changed over the years and even substantially over the past 3-4 years. What might have been considered competitive years back might not be now. I talk to reserve officers and many of them joined/we're accepted with only a bachelors degree. When I show them what NRC is looking for now, they're astonished. Many times with the saying "oh yeah no way could I join nowadays".

I understand. Thanks for the feedback. Btw I was a Deck Seaman. And ive made it this far, I don't quit!!!!

 

[jagM3]

Thanks for the info my buddy is currently reserve intel I have been getting a lot of info from him. I understand it is very tough without a masters but at least I have classes under my belt with a good GPA. From what I've gathered they board really looks for masters with good GPA, excellent leadership and the overall applicant...? I applied to Supply before and one of the guys I interviewed with said i have a small edge because i am at least working on my masters and flat out told me I am going to be an Officer because of my leadership experience / potential. The question is when, not if i will get selected I guess. I understand intel is a different beast than supply

As bad as it may sound, as far as military leadership goes, the IWC doesn't want people who have enlisted experience leading sailors unless you can show extraordinary leadership experience as either a Chief in the IWC or some fashion of tangible and quantifiable combat leadership experience gained in NSW or from specwar in another service. The IWC looks for corporate leaders, not defense contractors, unless you are in a mid to senior role at least as a project manager in charge of 25+ people in a field directly related to the IWC. Most people who apply to the 1835 reserve program likely already know they will be selected before even applying, there are very few people who are surprised when they are selected. If you have doubts over your competitiveness, it is unlikely you will be selected. Keep in mind, this is THE most competitive commissioning program in the entire military across all services active or reserve, the threshold for selection is extraordinarily high. The IWC wants intelligence leaders with significant experience that has given them a strategic and cultured world view at a relatively high level before you even pin on the gold bars -- to be blunt, most new ensign 1835s have more global experience, comparatively speaking, to many flag officers in the Navy on active duty. If you are going to be selected, you know you will be selected before you ever submit the application. If you have to nickel and dime certain categories, I wouldn't hold my breath.

The 1835 O4 who interviewed me a few years ago was a small town cop with a bachelors degree and no prior experience when he commissioned in this very same DCO 1835 program and nowadays the IWC is rejecting otherwise highly competitive FBI Special Agents who may not already be in a supervisory position. Not a chance he could have made it in today.

 

[jagM3]

Just curious...do you see a variance on the masters degree stuff in between applicants for IP/1825 vs Intel? I would expect a higher emphasis on the formal education for the latter, that would make more sense just given my (admittedly ignorant) perception of the roles/communities. 15 years in civilian IT has certainly jaded me on the inexperienced masters degree kid (vs the capable/experienced guy with an non-IT bachelors, or none at all).

Still, I'm looking into starting a MS IT Mgmt soon, once I pass (or don't pass) CISSP certification...accelerated to complete within 1 year so I'd be "in progress" this year, but completed before the boards FY19 in case of nonselect...

Nope -- given that 1815 and 1825 selectees are literally in the single digits, they are even more selective than 1835. The 1815 and 1825 ensigns i've met have been chief technology officers at major corporations, founders of cyber security firms, GS14+ leaders at civilian agencies doing the exact same jobs in leadership roles, etc. These people are not the exception, they are the norm. As far as CISSP certification goes, many people who are selected earned their CISSP years before applying and had significant experience working with and using the certification for many years. Just earning a certification with no quantifiable experience using the certification won't mean much to the board, FYI.

 

[USNAVY]

As bad as it may sound, as far as military leadership goes, the IWC doesn't want people who have enlisted experience leading sailors unless you can show extraordinary leadership experience as either a Chief in the IWC or some fashion of tangible and quantifiable combat leadership experience gained in NSW or from specwar in another service. The IWC looks for corporate leaders, not defense contractors, unless you are in a mid to senior role at least as a project manager in charge of 25+ people in a field directly related to the IWC. Most people who apply to the 1835 reserve program likely already know they will be selected before even applying, there are very few people who are surprised when they are selected. If you have doubts over your competitiveness, it is unlikely you will be selected. Keep in mind, this is THE most competitive commissioning program in the entire military across all services active or reserve, the threshold for selection is extraordinarily high. The IWC wants intelligence leaders with significant experience that has given them a strategic and cultured world view at a relatively high level before you even pin on the gold bars -- to be blunt, most new ensign 1835s have more global experience, comparatively speaking, to many flag officers in the Navy on active duty. If you are going to be selected, you know you will be selected before you ever submit the application. If you have to nickel and dime certain categories, I wouldn't hold my breath.

The 1835 O4 who interviewed me a few years ago was a small town cop with a bachelors degree and no prior experience when he commissioned in this very same DCO 1835 program and nowadays the IWC is rejecting otherwise highly competitive FBI Special Agents who may not already be in a supervisory position. Not a chance he could have made it in today.

Thanks for the feedback. However, I am very comfortable with my leadership experience. Not only do I have Navy leadership experience but I substitute teached high school students and was the Academic Coordinator leading 600+ Computer Science students at Florida State University, currently leading analysts and conduct training on our software to government and contract employees. Is that not considered strong leadership?

 

[jagM3]

Thank you for all the advice and congratulations on making it through. The defacto MA/MS requirement is a little disappointing. My current employer plans on sending me to get a Masters eventually, but deploying to remote areas is our bread and butter. I don't foresee myself being in a position to obtain a Masters within the near future. I am hoping I have the opportunity to knock one out before I fall outside the age requirement. Thank you again for the advice and congratulations on sticking with it and seeing it through!

I think the masters degree questions are becoming a bit tired. It is 2017 and anyone can go on the internet and earn a masters degree in virtually any field within 12 to 18 months on your own time, from anywhere in the world, while still working your normal fulltime job. This is reality and the board knows it. If you don't want to wait for your employer to send you fulltime for a year straight to earn a masters degree, then get one on your own. If you don't have a masters degree, there really are no excuses or substitutions the board will accept other than you're welcome to reapply once you earn a masters degree. Just because a civilian job sends you overseas, deploys you, sends you to Afghanistan or Iraq, whatever, is absolutely no excuse for not having a masters degree. In progress towards a masters degree right now? Unless you have met all degree requirements and are simply awaiting conferral with a letter from your registrar stating you have completed all degree requirements, the board won't really care that you have take a few classes and have a high GPA.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

^ THIS.

 

[jagM3]

It is simple supply and demand, a seemingly endless supply of outrageously qualified candidates for a very limited number of slots means the Navy can pick only the highest qualified. Pretty much everyone who is applies is already accomplished and certainly qualified to be an 1835 (....its a pretty easy job really and we let recent college grads with absolutely no experience in any capacity, professional or leadership, do this fulltime for the Navy), but the Navy only chooses the highest qualified for the reserves and this means the best our country has to offer. If you have to ask what others on here may think about your competitiveness, I strongly encourage you to look at other commissioning options.

 

[USNAVY]

^ THIS.

I still feel better with my evals, references, leadership experience and "working on a masters" then someone who hasn't took one class lol. Sorry to those who haven't. No pun intended

 

[jagM3]

Here's one for you, and I pose this question to everyone on here trying to gauge their own likelihood of selection or competitiveness....

Ask yourself this: Are you currently in a position of power or influence in the civilian world where the Navy could leverage its own self interests? If you can answer yes to that question, you will likely be selected for a direct commission.

The Navy is really brilliant. What is the primary mission of the reserves? It's simple: To maintain readiness and augment the active duty forces. Is this what the Navy uses the corps of 1835s for? Officially, yes. But is this really the only purpose for Navy 1835s? Nope. The Navy from a corporate and organizational standpoint is quite brilliant and really sets itself apart from the other services and the Navy's power as the politically strongest military service has always been evident throughout Naval history. Corporately, the Navy has its own self interests beyond just having qualified reserve officers. The Navy ***unofficially*** uses its reserve cadre as a means of literally being able to reach out into virtually any organ of government or the private sector and talk to a reservist at a very high level who can be there to perhaps leverage interests of the Navy. The Navy is very political. The Navy is negotiating the price of the Navy variant of the F35? It is highly likely that one of the senior executives with whom the Navy is negotiating from Lockheed is also a Navy reserve officer. Of course, that reserve Naval officer certainly respects and strictly adheres to all of his legal obligations surrounding conflicts of interest, but it is only the Navy amongst all other military services who have become political masters of the gray.

 

[sqlfunkateer]

I will say, it's rather a good thing for the country so many Fortune 500 CTOs, cybersecurity firm founders, etc. are as interested in giving up their weekends and trading substantial remuneration for ensign pay! All joking aside, I understand my own motivation (not many of my peers really do, its personal and utterly not financial) but the idea of these "best of the best, trust us, you don't have a chance" world leaders in their respective fields all clamoring to get into the Navy mid-career where they will be outranked by a pimply O-2 with just a couple years of experience...kudos to them, but its a bit funny imagining these guys (err, sorry, and ladies) trying to learn the 11 general orders of the sentry and stressing about uniform inspections at DCOIC. Whatever magic the Navy has in terms of recruiting for DCO, I bet the civ tech recruiters are jealous, they fall all over themselves just to get good quality IT pros to return a phone call.

I'm enjoying the process regardless of the outcome, anyway..."worst" case scenario, this motivates me to broaden my expertise, add some additional certifications to my list, grab a masters degree, and then at the end I get all 4 of my weekends a month to myself. Cheers and good luck all...

 

[jagM3]

I still feel better with my evals, references, leadership experience and "working on a masters" then someone who hasn't took one class lol. Sorry to those who haven't. No pun intended

Traditionally and with respect to virtually every other commissioning program the Navy offers, I would say you fall into the upper half of the applicant pool. For 1835, I would say you likely fall into the bottom third of the applicant pool based only on what i've read in this thread. Just my opinion.

 

[USNAVY]

Here's one for you, and I pose this question to everyone on here trying to gauge their own likelihood of selection or competitiveness....

Ask yourself this: Are you currently in a position of power or influence in the civilian world where the Navy could leverage its own self interests? If you can answer yes to that question, you will likely be selected for a direct commission.

The Navy is really brilliant. What is the primary mission of the reserves? It's simple: To maintain readiness and augment the active duty forces. Is this what the Navy uses the corps of 1835s for? Officially, yes. But is this really the only purpose for Navy 1835s? Nope. The Navy from a corporate and organizational standpoint is quite brilliant and really sets itself apart from the other services and the Navy's power as the politically strongest military service has always been evident throughout Naval history. Corporately, the Navy has its own self interests beyond just having qualified reserve officers. The Navy ***unofficially*** uses its reserve cadre as a means of literally being able to reach out into virtually any organ of government or the private sector and talk to a reservist at a very high level who can be there to perhaps leverage interests of the Navy. The Navy is very political. The Navy is negotiating the price of the Navy variant of the F35? It is highly likely that one of the senior executives with whom the Navy is negotiating from Lockheed is also a Navy reserve officer. Of course, that reserve Naval officer certainly respects and strictly adheres to all of his legal obligations surrounding conflicts of interest, but it is only the Navy who have become political masters of the gray.

Why not encourage the people who want to become INTEL officers for the greater good. Someone on my ship once told me not to get out because I wouldn't have the funds to pay for school at FSU and then president Bush signed the Post 9/11. I got out and got my undergrad in History. I am applying for a commission this cycle. Its going to happen at some point. Probably not this time I know. To each their own

 

[USNAVY]

Traditionally and with respect to virtually every other commissioning program the Navy offers, I would say you fall into the upper half of the applicant pool. For 1835, I would say you likely fall into the bottom third of the applicant pool based only on what i've read in this thread. Just my opinion.

I totally understand how competitive it is. You never know. My buddy said the most important thing is your interviews..if you don't interview well you don't have a chance. Sound about right?

 

[jagM3]

I will say, it's rather a good thing for the country so many Fortune 500 CTOs, cybersecurity firm founders, etc. are as interested in giving up their weekends and trading substantial remuneration for ensign pay! All joking aside, I understand my own motivation (not many of my peers really do, its personal and utterly not financial) but the idea of these "best of the best, trust us, you don't have a chance" world leaders in their respective fields all clamoring to get into the Navy mid-career where they will be outranked by a pimply O-2 with just a couple years of experience...kudos to them, but its a bit funny imagining these guys (err, sorry, and ladies) trying to learn the 11 general orders of the sentry and stressing about uniform inspections at DCOIC. Whatever magic the Navy has in terms of recruiting for DCO, I bet the civ tech recruiters are jealous, they fall all over themselves just to get good quality IT pros to return a phone call.

I'm enjoying the process regardless of the outcome, anyway..."worst" case scenario, this motivates me to broaden my expertise, add some additional certifications to my list, grab a masters degree, and then at the end I get all 4 of my weekends a month to myself. Cheers and good luck all...

DCOIC is a joke, the uniform "inspections" are a joke, and knowledge memorization is a joke. You don't need to know the 11 general orders, you don't need to learn anything before you go, you can literally show up with no uniforms and the uniform "inspections" are not exactly the same standards employed in traditional Navy boot camp or at OCS. As long as your pants are hemmed and your fly isn't open, you pass the uniform inspection. For crying out loud, there are literally people who can wear their rank backwards and the Chief will show you how to wear it correctly and then you pass the "inspection." This is not OCS and it is every bit of a gentleman's course as you can get.

It is not about being an O1, O2, or Oanything, nor does anyone really care about the pay. For most of these highly qualified people i've met whom are also my fellow 1835s (in the last ca. 5 years) they fall into two categories. They've made it in life and want to serve the military either for their own personal self interests or truly for noble reasons. Either way, they don't want to take much, if any, time away from their civilian lives and they don't want to put up with bullshit. Most of the guys serving with me never even wanted to join the Navy, but they did want to be a reserve commissioned officer without the bullshit of 20+ weeks of OCS, another several months on active duty for schooling, etc. and when you look at all the reserve commissioning programs, you quickly narrow it down to the Navy's beautiful 1835 program where you can get the most for giving the least. If you are a highly competitive candidate, the 1835 program is also the easiest commissioning program with the least amount of bullshit involved to become a commissioned officer.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Why not encourage the people who want to become INTEL officers for the greater good. Someone on my ship once told me not to get out because I wouldn't have the funds to pay for school at FSU and then president Bush signed the Post 9/11. I got out and got my undergrad in History. I am applying for a commission this cycle. Its going to happen at some point. Probably not this time I know. To each their own

What do you mean the greater good? Like other officer designators?