Future of NFOs in the Marine Corps?

[SpaceApe29]

It still adds up to a few thousand a year, doesn't it? That's a fairly significant portion. It's a family vacation...or, more toys in the garage.

Hell, our Airborne jump pay is only $150. It's the same as in the 1950's, when they first made the T-10 parachutes we still use. I don't see why special pay doesn't get adjusted with our annual pay increases. $150 a month was almost 1/2 the salary of an NCO back in the 1950's, now it barely covers the amount of beer you drink to dull that lump on your head and that pain in your knees from mother earth kicking your tail.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't multiple crew in an aircraft make you more alert tactically? I mean that's an extra set of eyes looking for meat to put iron and lead on, and to keep friendly meat off the grill.

 

[Fog]

Hell, our Airborne jump pay is only $150. It's the same as in the 1950's, when they first made the T-10 parachutes we still use. I don't see why special pay doesn't get adjusted with our annual pay increases. $150 a month was almost 1/2 the salary of an NCO back in the 1950's, now it barely covers the amount of beer you drink to dull that lump on your head and that pain in your knees from mother earth kicking your tail.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't multiple crew in an aircraft make you more alert tactically? I mean that's an extra set of eyes looking for meat to put iron and lead on, and to keep friendly meat off the grill.

We old aviators can out-woe that story. In the 60's an ensign (under 2) earned $220/mo. and flight pay was $110/mo. - while in flight training. I got winged as an NFO while still an ensign and flight pay reverted to $100/mo. Total pay (before taxes) was less than $400/mo unless you got the Allowance for Quarters, which was $125, I think. Officers serving in RVN got the 1st $500 of their monthly pay tax-free under Lyndon Baines gracious direction. - all enlisted pay was tax-free in the "Combat Zone". I got sent to RVN as an ensign to my squdron's dets at TSN & DaNang and still wasn't making $500 a month. War is hell.

 

[SpaceApe29]

War is hell.

WOW, yes it is and my Hell in southern Afghanistan is nothing compared to the Hell you gentlemen had in Vietnam. Thank you sir for your service in Vietnam!

In the Army they're always pushing "The Buddy System" as a second set of eyes can help you see ambushes, stay awake on guard, and help in the time of danger. I sure hope single-seat or drone airframes don't take over and nudge-out NFOs, yes that's one more officer to train but nothing is deadlier than two well trained gentlemen of the air with a multi-million dollar airframe and a delightful assortment of air-to-ground weapons. Trust me, I've seen this in combat from the ground. Computers can't replace common-sense and can't be a good drinking buddy.

 

[Flash]

WOW, yes it is and my Hell in southern Afghanistan is nothing compared to the Hell you gentlemen had in Vietnam. Thank you sir for your service in Vietnam!

In the Army they're always pushing "The Buddy System" as a second set of eyes can help you see ambushes, stay awake on guard, and help in the time of danger. I sure hope single-seat or drone airframes don't take over and nudge-out NFOs, yes that's one more officer to train but nothing is deadlier than two well trained gentlemen of the air with a multi-million dollar airframe and a delightful assortment of air-to-ground weapons. Trust me, I've seen this in combat from the ground. Computers can't replace common-sense and can't be a good drinking buddy.

The Army and common sense is like oil and water, not sure I can trust a service to use common sense that can't seem to take a shit without staffing a FRAGO to do it.

 

[eas7888]

WOW, yes it is and my Hell in southern Afghanistan is nothing compared to the Hell you gentlemen had in Vietnam. Thank you sir for your service in Vietnam!

In the Army they're always pushing "The Buddy System" as a second set of eyes can help you see ambushes, stay awake on guard, and help in the time of danger. I sure hope single-seat or drone airframes don't take over and nudge-out NFOs, yes that's one more officer to train but nothing is deadlier than two well trained gentlemen of the air with a multi-million dollar airframe and a delightful assortment of air-to-ground weapons. Trust me, I've seen this in combat from the ground. Computers can't replace common-sense and can't be a good drinking buddy.

Speaking of "Battle Buddies," my unit required everyone to have a battle buddy at all times while walking around at every FOB we went to. Need to take a dump? Well, you'd better grab your battle buddy.

Furthermore, all sensitive items were to be dummy corded to you, and verified by your squad/team leader before and after you leave the FOB. That lasted about two weeks, until someone tripped on the dummy cord climbing out of the truck and broke their wrist.

God bless the Army and it's common sense.

 

[SpaceApe29]

Yeah, yeah, I didn't say Army had common sense. The only common sense I've seen was in a certain unit that I was attached to in Afghanistan last time and ever since then it's been real hard to support the regular line infantry unit training and mentality.

The point I was getting at was computers can't do everything and it just makes sense to have two crew members - one to fly the bird and one to navigate/coordinate/facilitate. The path of the future is Joint Operations, especially in a COIN environment, and someone has to talk to someone like myself on the ground with only the slightest bit of JTAC training.

 

[eas7888]

...and someone has to talk to someone like myself on the ground with only the slightest bit of JTAC training.

Or an Army reservist like myself, with my outstanding radio etiquette.

That's a big 10-4, good copy, roger, over and out.

 

[usmarinemike]

Speaking of "Battle Buddies," my unit required everyone to have a battle buddy at all times while walking around at every FOB we went to. Need to take a dump? Well, you'd better grab your battle buddy.

Furthermore, all sensitive items were to be dummy corded to you, and verified by your squad/team leader before and after you leave the FOB. That lasted about two weeks, until someone tripped on the dummy cord climbing out of the truck and broke their wrist.

God bless the Army and it's common sense.

I'm sorry about the threadjack, but I have to ask...Save for some NVGs, what sensitive stuff could a motor-T bubba possibly have dummy corded to himself? You guys don't even get keys to look after.

 

[eas7888]

I'm sorry about the threadjack, but I have to ask...Save for some NVGs, what sensitive stuff could a motor-T bubba possibly have dummy corded to himself? You guys don't even get keys to look after.

Well, being a convoy commander, I had an AN/CYZ-10, of an AN/PYQ-10 M4, M9 AN/PVS-14 and a DAGR or PLGR, depending on the POS I was in. I was allowed to have my map book in the truck, unattached. Thank God. That's about all I can think off, off the top of my head.

For awhile, while I was LVC (Lead Vehicle Commander), I had the M249 instead of the M4. That sucked a big one. Hauling that thing in and out of a HET while wearing/carrying 1000rds was a pain in my back, knees, ankles. . .and every other joint I had. Being Motor-T doesn't mean you don't get any of the cool stuff. Our gun truck platoon had some AT-4s, along with the typical loadout of MK-19s, M240s, M2s, and M249s.

 

[usmarinemike]

Roger on the CYZ-10 and DAGR/PLGR.

You dummy corded your weapons?

 

[eas7888]

Roger on the CYZ-10 and DAGR/PLGR.

You dummy corded your weapons?

For a short while, until someone broke their wrist tripping on the cord.

Edit: To add to this, the reason we had to wear dummy cords is that there was a genius in our battalion who decided to set his weapon down on the HET trailer, then put a 20ft container on top of it. They looked for nearly 12 hours before they decided to take the containers off and stand them down. Well, when they took the container off, there it was.

 

[Swanee]

And I thought the dummy cording shenanigans at TBS were crazy. What happened to simply being accountable for your gear? Pretty soon you'll look like you just walked through a spider web with all the 550 cord hanging off of you. And THAT is super tactical...

 

[eas7888]

And I thought the dummy cording shenanigans at TBS were crazy. What happened to simply being accountable for your gear? Pretty soon you'll look like you just walked through a spider web with all the 550 cord hanging off of you. And THAT is super tactical...

But, if you wanted to rappel down Mt. Everest, you'd be set.

 

[jarhead]

Great source for a lot of info about Maine aviation, the Marine Aviation Plan with information from numbers of aircraft in the USMC inventory to how many PEP tour billets there are......wish the Navy put out something like this.

FY 11 AV PLAN is in the wild...

S/F

 

[usmarinemike]

FY 11 AV PLAN is in the wild...

S/F

Salient to this thread, the schedule to end CAT I WSO and CAT I ECMO production remains the same as in last year's plan (5xWSOs in FY16 and 6xECMOs in FY17). I don't have the brain-trons to look up any differences in the airframe sundown plans right now.