Future of NFOs in the Marine Corps?

[crucible724ind]

NFO being Phased Out

Hello,
I recently thinking about contracting for OCC in Marine Corps for Naval Flight Officer Mos. I have been hearing that this MOS is being replaced because the number of two seater planes/jets in the Marine Corps is being replaced by newer JSFs. Does anybody have more information on this??

 

[ea6bflyr]

Welcome to AirWarriors. Your question has been asked and answered before. Please use the site's lovely search function to find the answers you seek.

-ea6bflyr

 

[wink]

Hello,
I recently thinking about contracting for OCC in Marine Corps for Naval Flight Officer Mos. I have been hearing that this MOS is being replaced because the number of two seater planes/jets in the Marine Corps is being replaced by newer JSFs. Does anybody have more information on this??

Given the fleet plan on the table now NFOs will go away in the Marine Corps long before in the Navy. Still, it will be many years. A Marine will be able to speak to that better then I. But when that time comes there will likely still be a job for you in the Marines, and probably aviation. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[rohanc]

Marine SNFO? Is it too late?

Good Morning Airwarriors!

I am almost done with my flight physical (I live in P-Cola, so that makes driving back and forth to NAMI pretty easy). However, I found out that I just barely missed the cutoff for SNA as a far as vision is concerned. I am still PQ for NFO but I am commissioning in the USMC in May and I am a little cautious to sign an NFO contract. I would love to get into the cockpit, but I've heard that they're taking contracts away from Lts at TBS now, and that the few SNFOs in Pensacola are waiting forever just to class up. Basically, I want to get into aviation, but word is NFOs are going away for Marines and probably pretty soon. Has anyone heard anything as to this situation? And would trying to go NFO in the USMC be a bad idea at this time in your opinions? I know this decision is ultimately mine to make, however it would be nice to hear from the men and women who are experiencing this whole thing now. Thanks for your time. Semper Fi.

 

[spitfiremkxiv]

Good Morning Airwarriors!

I am almost done with my flight physical (I live in P-Cola, so that makes driving back and forth to NAMI pretty easy). However, I found out that I just barely missed the cutoff for SNA as a far as vision is concerned. I am still PQ for NFO but I am commissioning in the USMC in May and I am a little cautious to sign an NFO contract. I would love to get into the cockpit, but I've heard that they're taking contracts away from Lts at TBS now, and that the few SNFOs in Pensacola are waiting forever just to class up. Basically, I want to get into aviation, but word is NFOs are going away for Marines and probably pretty soon. Has anyone heard anything as to this situation? And would trying to go NFO in the USMC be a bad idea at this time in your opinions? I know this decision is ultimately mine to make, however it would be nice to hear from the men and women who are experiencing this whole thing now. Thanks for your time. Semper Fi.

Your concerns about SNFO seem valid based on recent trends, but I'll let the NFOs weigh in further on that one. Just remember that it's only the current trend and that in a year NFOs might be in demand again if they figure out that the F-35 won't be delivered on time.

As far as your options go, you can sign the SNFO contract now and try to switch to SNA pre-commissioning. I don't necessarily recommend this course of action because it's a long shot. It used to be an in-house switch at district depending on availability, but I don't know if it still works that way. You will first have to have a vision waiver from NAMI that you will either get now or in the future after PRK, if you have considered that option already. Then they have to have the slot open to give to you. Like I said, I wouldn't recommend signing a SNFO contract if you really want to switch to SNA later, but then I did exactly that and it worked out for me just fine, for what it's worth. Are you OCS complete and currently on an air contract?

Post your eye exam results once you have them so that the rest of the world can see what didn't qualify...

 

[rohanc]

Thanks sir. I am OCS Complete, commissioning May 2009. I am NPQ for SNA because I am slightly farsighted. I took all the different eye tests, and I am completely 20/20 at this moment. However after my eyes were dilated, I couldn't see well enough to pass. I believe it's called Decreased Visual Acuity (I looked it up on the waiver guide). Basically the Lt. said that I see well now, because I am young and my eyes have the ability to compensate for my slight visual shortcomings. However, as I get older, he said I would be unable to correct the problem. He also said that surgery won't fix this and no waivers are granted for such a problem. That leaves me with the NFO option, which would be awesome if it worked out. However, I am concerned. I would like to go NFO if I can, but I've heard all sorts of RUMINT going around, i.e. NFO contracts getting dropped, waiting forever to class up, and the whole NFO MOS going away in a few years altogether (Marine Corps ACE at least.) If that were to be the case, then maybe I should just go ground. Right now, it is hard to make a decision..

 

[OUSOONER]

Thanks sir. I am OCS Complete, commissioning May 2009. I am NPQ for SNA because I am slightly farsighted. I took all the different eye tests, and I am completely 20/20 at this moment. However after my eyes were dilated, I couldn't see well enough to pass. I believe it's called Decreased Visual Acuity (I looked it up on the waiver guide). Basically the Lt. said that I see well now, because I am young and my eyes have the ability to compensate for my slight visual shortcomings. However, as I get older, he said I would be unable to correct the problem. He also said that surgery won't fix this and no waivers are granted for such a problem. That leaves me with the NFO option, which would be awesome if it worked out. However, I am concerned. I would like to go NFO if I can, but I've heard all sorts of RUMINT going around, i.e. NFO contracts getting dropped, waiting forever to class up, and the whole NFO MOS going away in a few years altogether (Marine Corps ACE at least.) If that were to be the case, then maybe I should just go ground. Right now, it is hard to make a decision..

That sucks man..so basically they can see into the future? I thought that NAMI looks at how you are today..and once you are winged your vision can deteriorate to a certain point.

Shouldn't all that matter is that NOW you are 20/20? I mean sure, in a year from now you could get in a car accident and get paralyzed (I hope not, just sayin) and be NPQ for flight.

But the same could be said about how your eyes will worsen in the future? I'm no doc..but that just sounds dumb. If I am understanding it correctly by your description. I mean don't we all get a little worse off as we age? How do they know you're going to turn into 'Walleye' from Hot Shots! in 5-10 years?

 

[Swanee]

Threadjack:

All these NAMI horror stories I hear scare me. My OSO sent me to an optometrist a couple weeks ago. I passed his exam without any problems at all. Now I'm flying down to NAMI on next week. I'm paranoid that they are going to find something wrong, though the OSO tells me not to listen to such witchery and that I'll be fine.

/Threadjack

One of the guys from my area that I may be going to OCC-200 with is in a similar boat. He is going on as an SNFO and then going to get PRK and try to cross back over to SNA.

It's a tough call, good luck. And remember, there are other cool jobs in the Marine Corp outside of a cockpit should you find yourself stuck without a job.

 

[rohanc]

I don't know how they can say that either. Two Lts came in to break the bad news, which I thought was pretty cool. But I was pretty shocked at the time and didn't ask too many questions. Luckily I still have to go back to get my anthro measurements and see the dentist so maybe I can ask them how it all works..

 

[OUSOONER]

I don't know how they can say that either. Two Lts came in to break the bad news, which I thought was pretty cool. But I was pretty shocked at the time and didn't ask too many questions. Luckily I still have to go back to get my anthro measurements and see the dentist so maybe I can ask them how it all works..

Dude, fight for that shit. I'd be annoying every doc in the fleet...get a second , third,... thirtieth opinion. You have perfect vision NOW.

Good luck!

 

[exo]

They aren't guessing and saying that they think your vision is going to deteriorate and that's why it's a no go. Their saying, you can't see as well when your eyes are dilated, therefore you have a medical condition that is not waiverable because we don't want to spend 2 million on training even know we can predict reasonably well that your vision will deteriorate.

That being said, I would still try like hell to get other opinions and a waiver if possible.

 

[Crowbar]

word is NFOs are going away for Marines and probably pretty soon.

The latest avplan says that as of FY19 we will no longer need NFOs. However, we are scheduled to start getting ICAP III jets within the next six months. Call me skeptical but I find it hard to believe we're getting "new" jets to use for ten years then park. I don't know what the plan is for D's, I'm sure somebody else can elaborate on that.

the whole NFO MOS going away in a few years altogether (Marine Corps ACE at least.) If that were to be the case, then maybe I should just go ground.

Serious question. So you'd rather just go ground now and never be involved in aviation than potentially do it for a few years before you have to find a new job? That's up to you. It's something to think about that ECMOs and WSOs will just be forgotten about and tossed out on their collective ass once their jobs are gone. However, HQMC says the number of NFO to pilot transitions will go up (won't apply to you I guess), and there are other jobs you can do with an ECMO/WSO background. Me? I'll be well into retirement before FY19 hits so I don't worry about it so much. This has, however, sparked a lot of debate within some of the squadrons, with more people looking at things like SEP and the associated payback tours to try to finish out their 20.

 

[nugget61]

I'm confused... your dilated exam showed you weren't 20/20, but when you take a regular eye test you are 20/20? Do the Marines have different vision standards for SNA than the Navy or something?
Navy Waiver Guide:

Cycloplegic Refraction: This is required for all candidates to determine the degree of spherical ametropia. The refraction should be performed to maximum plus correction to obtain best visual acuity. Due to the effect of lens aberrations with pupil dilation, visual acuity or astigmatic correction, which might disqualify the candidate, should be disregarded if the candidate meets the standards for visual acuity and astigmatism with manifest refraction. A cycloplegic refraction should be performed at least 30 minutes after instillation of 2gtts (5 minutes apart) 1% cyclopentolate.

I don't get why you have a problem if your manifest is good.

 

[torpedo0126]

the wait time for Marine SNFOs waiting to class up for API is about 15-24 months--this is according to the Marines I am currently attending IFS with. There are only 2-3 slots given to Marines usually per API class (and they are usually reserved for pilots)

i am not an expert though, that is just I heard from the Marines I;m with,

 

[spitfiremkxiv]

TI am NPQ for SNA because I am slightly farsighted. I took all the different eye tests, and I am completely 20/20 at this moment. However after my eyes were dilated, I couldn't see well enough to pass. I believe it's called Decreased Visual Acuity (I looked it up on the waiver guide). Basically the Lt. said that I see well now, because I am young and my eyes have the ability to compensate for my slight visual shortcomings. However, as I get older, he said I would be unable to correct the problem. He also said that surgery won't fix this and no waivers are granted for such a problem.

I could be totally wrong on this...

Visual acuity is merely how well you see. Decreased Visual Acuity just means that you don't see perfectly, for whatever reason. In this case, it appears that you are farsighted, and that is the reason for your NPQ. You won't be able to get a PRK waiver even if you found a surgeon to do the operation. Let us know what you found out from the docs when you went back today.

Nugget - good find in the waiver guide. I scoured over the vision sections of that guide for a long time but I never really picked up on the fact that the manifest was the more important test.