Future of helo land

[NOSWO]

What exactly is NSW? And besides that and the potential of Air Ambulance missions what all do the HC bubba's do, mission wise, etc.?

Well untill we get the proper equipment (ASE Gear) we do no NSW thats feet dry...but we are training up for all the NSW missions...CSAR, VBSS, HRST etc.....the goal of NSW from the helo world is to get SEALS/EOD in and out of a location without getting shotdown and provide a limited fire support (until the nifty block 3's come out )

 

[ChuckMK23]

Well untill we get the proper equipment (ASE Gear) we do no NSW thats feet dry...but we are training up for all the NSW missions...CSAR, VBSS, HRST etc.....the goal of NSW from the helo world is to get SEALS/EOD in and out of a location without getting shotdown and provide a limited fire support (until the nifty block 3's come out )

What is "proper ASE gear" really? - sorry but that sounds like an excuse - your production MH-60S differ little from the base UH-60L as far as survivability goes. Your commanders need to stop pussyfooting around and put you guys in the fight!

 

[Cyclic]

They don't have to, most of the SEALs are forward deployed and fall under SOCOM, be it joint with Army or USAF, the rest of the requirement is fulfilled by reserve HCS squadrons, by the time they convert Blk III will be online.
Yes there is a requirement to support CSG/ESG embedded NSW units but it's not the predominant mode of operation today, for over land that is, depends on the theatre requirements.

 

[ChuckMK23]

They don't have to, most of the SEALs are forward deployed and fall under SOCOM, be it joint with Army or USAF, the rest of the requirement is fulfilled by reserve HCS squadrons, by the time they convert Blk III will be online.
Yes there is a requirement to support CSG/ESG embedded NSW units but it's not the predominant mode of operation today, for over land that is, depends on the theatre requirements.

Point conceded -

Interesting that the MH-47D that was the most recent casualty was indeed carrying a platoon from ST4.

SOCOM will always leverage their own air assets - but the bigger picture still remains that most Navy Helo O-5's (and above) are totally resisting any tasking that would put them in harms way - and I cannot for the life of me understand that. Loosing opportunities for direct combat hurts the Navy helo community.

 

[Pags]

Well untill we get the proper equipment (ASE Gear) we do no NSW thats feet dry...but we are training up for all the NSW missions...CSAR, VBSS, HRST etc.....the goal of NSW from the helo world is to get SEALS/EOD in and out of a location without getting shotdown and provide a limited fire support (until the nifty block 3's come out )

For the ignorants flight studs here, what's ASE? Aicraft Survivability Equipment? I'm assuming its some kind of countermeasures suite.

 

[lowflier03]

After talking with some people I definately cant wait to see what the new -60S armed helo kit can do. It will finally make the Sierra better than the Hotel. The current release date for the armed helo kit is Oct. of 06. It sounds alot like the Army's new MH-60L DAP (Direct Action Penetrator) Supposed to really give us a weapons on target capability for better missions and get us more involved in the SEAL side of operations.

 

[Cyclic]

It's almost the same, funding for the refueling probe is still being debated, no radar and we won't get the forward firing gun option.

 

[lowflier03]

Thats a shame. Think of all the fun flex guns would be. Or even a cannon.

 

[bch]

For the ignorants flight studs here, what's ASE? Aicraft Survivability Equipment? I'm assuming its some kind of countermeasures suite.

Yes it is. However, this is not the place for a discussion on ASE gear, especially capabilities.

 

[NOSWO]

Yes it is. However, this is not the place for a discussion on ASE gear, especially capabilities.

Yeah left my post vague on purpose....but without proper ASE gear nobody goes feet dry....

There was some talk of a forward firing gun at one point...but think that got swapped for some nifty moving map thingy...I will never understand the whole funding thing I think.....

The whole SOCOM and helo debate has been done over and over again...basically SOCOM wants a dedicated asset from the Navy (as in when they use Navy Helos they want to be in total control of them), but the Battle Group commanders wont give their assets up...so for now HCS picks up the slack.....

 

[HH-60H]

It will finally make the Sierra better than the Hotel.

Well, I am not sure that the Sierra will ever be better than the Hotel.

 

[Cyclic]

Well, I am not sure that the Sierra will ever be better than the Hotel.

OOOuuuuhhhh!!! Let me guess...you're retired.

 

[HH-60H]

No, in fact, you are much closer to retirement than I am. I just don't think I will be flying the Sierra or Romeo, or even the Hotel ever again.

 

[lowflier03]

Alot of people were wondering why even bother with a Sierra model instead of just reopening the Hotel line. If you saw the specs on the armed helo kit for the Sierra, you would change your mind. It really is beyond the hotel. More fuel, more weapons, more sensors, etc. Too bad the tailwheel is in the wrong spot.

 

[Stearmann4]

I'm going to agree, and expand on what Chuck said. As a 160th pilot and former NSW guy I've been on both sides of the debate. Pilot's are pilots (more or less), service is just geography. As a SEAL, we rarely could get HS to infil us in anything but the most favorable conditions (50% illum, optimal moon angle, minimal threat etc.), which coincidentally makes it optimal for Hajii as well.

For Navy helos to get down and dirty in the spec-ops effort, it'll take two things; a dedicated training effort (NVGs, feet dry, dust environment, and gunnery), and commanders willing to accept the accompanying level of risk. When I say commanders, I mean flag levels and COs. The Marines do it on a regular basis from what I've seen, but that's a mentality that's fostered in Marine helos. When we've needed extra guns on a target,we've had great success with Marine skids (reserve guys no less), and I'd take them in a heartbeat over Army 64s' and 58Ds. Also, for ground guys to realize the potential of Navy gun platforms, they will indeed need to spend some time and effort with JTACs/Joint TACPs to build credibility. As everyone knows, flying around SD and Va B. no matter how you push it won't prepare you for hot LZs in OEF/OIF. I have every belief that Navy helo pilots want to, and are capable of the task, but the commanders are holding them back. I've realized that there are two thoughts in services/pilots that claim to fly special operations; some recite a regulation that prohibits them from completing the mission, and there are those that find a way to complete the mission. It's a simple matter of "no" being easier than finding a way to say "Yes". Commanders will have to be willing to accept this responsibility.

Lastly, on an interesting note, last year NSW drafted an elaboborate proposal to absorb HCS into NSW pairing dets with NSW task units. It would've pulled HCS from NAVAIR and placed them under SOCCOM (and it's funding). This would've been a win-win. The Navy would've had a dedicated spec-ops unit (and $$), NSW could've had unlimited RW support from a unit they were intimately familiar with, and the load on Army /AF RW SOF could've been reduced in theater. Ultimately, the Navy brass and SOCCOM gave it a resounding thumbs down. The hows and whys will up to our collective deductions.

Probably more information that you all cared to hear from me. PM me if you have any ranting of your own.

Mike-