Flying Warrant: A success or failure?

[webmaster]

We now have flying warrants in the Fleet. FY10 saw 3 pilots and 3 NFOs selected, and the program itself was recently reintroduced for another year with the intention to select another 3 pilots and 3 NFOs for FY11. The program continues to state the following career path options:

B. TOUR LENGTHS: SEA 36 MONTHS, SHORE 33 MONTHS.
C. ELIGIBLE ASSIGNMENTS: VP, VQ (P), VQ (T), HSC, HSL, AND
ASSOCIATED FRS,TRACOM, NSAWC AND WEAPONS SCHOOLS.
D. SELECTEES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR DEPARTMENT HEAD (DH) TOURS
AND WILL FILL

Thread history on Air Warriors:

• Navy flying Warrant O program (thread that started it all back in 2005)
• The Warrants have arrived
• First of Navy's new CWO Aviators pin on their wings
• Navy Flying Cwo Program

Observing performance at the P3 FRS, and briefs/overviews of the whole program, the data indicates as a whole that the groups going through perform below those of traditional SNAs/SNFOs. Discussion circulating earlier this year involved doing away with the program, but it looks like it has made its way back for another year. The initial selection group was plagued with a very small applicant pool to choose from, and some of that group did not make it through the pipeline. This is not to say that there haven't been standouts, we had a couple CWOs come through the FRS that rocked the program, and were solid performers. We sadly had others that had significant personality issues and/or no ability to fly or be a successful NFO.

This program is not impacting the TACAIR community, but now that the flying CWOs are in the Fleet, are they qualifying on time? Will they get to sign for planes? Or in the P3 community be a permanent 2P? Much conjecture was made on the forums back in 2005 as to their fate, and how they would incorporate into squadrons, but now that it is actually happening, is it successful?

John

 

[statesman]

Observing performance at the P3 FRS, and briefs/overviews of the whole program, the data indicates as a whole that the groups going through perform below those of traditional SNAs/SNFOs... We sadly had others that had significant personality issues and/or no ability to fly or be a successful NFO.

Any more detail regarding this part? Ive been wondering if this would be the case for a long time, and I dont think I'm the only one if I remember correctly what was said when the program first started.

 

[A4sForever]

.... We sadly had (some) others that had significant personality issues and/or no ability to fly or be a successful NFO....

Wait. WAIT !!!

Are you saying that you've encountered CWO's w/ 'significant' personality issues and/or no abilities to fly/NAV ... ???

No ... NO .... NO-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-OOOOO !!! Why, I've never met any like that in all my Navy years ... :icon_wink

Besides ... 'personality issues' and no abilities to fly/NAV .. ??? I believe they're called Boeing engineers ...

 

[webmaster]

Wait. WAIT !!!

Are you saying that you've encountered CWO's w/ 'significant' personality issues and/or no abilities to fly/NAV ... ???

No ... NO .... NO-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-OOOOO !!! Why, I've never met any like that in all my Navy years ... :icon_wink

Besides ... 'personality issues' and no abilities to fly/NAV .. ??? I believe they're called Boeing engineers ...

And there were also NROTC/Academy/OCS pukes that couldn't perform at the FRS either. Always made me wonder how they made it through the entire pipeline, or got pushed along. I digress, but when compared as a whole program (CWO vs Traditional [lack of a better phrase]), the CWOs performance through flight school appears to be below that of the traditional students.

 

[webmaster]

Any more detail regarding this part? Ive been wondering if this would be the case for a long time, and I dont think I'm the only one if I remember correctly what was said when the program first started.

I decline to go into an sordid details. Suffice it to say, if you are a prior E of any sort, don't go through flight school with a chip on your shoulder, or try and sandbag instructors. Regardless of the background on any student, failure to adequately prepare for events and study will definitely not go over well for you. By at least the FRS (can't speak to how VTs run things), you will be given multiple chances to succeed before you get the boot. Seriously, you need to try really hard to be an idiot, and go through multiple TRBs and one on ones with Pilot or NFO training before you get sent packing.

 

[bunk22]

It looks like there is such a small number of students going through. Imagine there are 3 who go to the FRS and 1 has issues, that's a high percentage, statistically speaking. I still don't understand why the CWO's are not allowed to go tailhook. I think we are one of the few nations that require a degree to be aviators. We used to have NAVCAD as well, a successful program from my understanding. I have some friends who were the last of the Navcads in the early 90's.

 

[webmaster]

It looks like there is such a small number of students going through. Imagine there are 3 who go to the FRS and 1 has issues, that's a high percentage, statistically speaking. I still don't understand why the CWO's are not allowed to go tailhook. I think we are one of the few nations that require a degree to be aviators. We used to have NAVCAD as well, a successful program from my understanding. I have some friends who were the last of the Navcads in the early 90's.

Well, we started off with, what, 9 the first year? And have scaled back as the years have gone on. It is a much smaller set, and the ones that do spectacularly well or tube the program can skew the numbers. But, aren't we talking about a HAND PICKED group of stellar individuals that should be more competitive than your average bear?

 

[A4sForever]

And there were also NROTC/Academy/OCS pukes that couldn't perform at the FRS either...

Roger that; my point was NO squadron CWO's in my experience would have 'fit' into the cockpit (tactical cockpit??) for a whole host of reasons. One was called 'Buddha-Baker', so we'll dismiss him out of hand, simply for height/weight/extreme-wretchedness considerations.

And of course, there's plenty of NROTC/BOAT-Skool/OCS 'pretty boys' that would fit my 'non-fit-cockpit' mold as well ... otherwise, why WOULD God have created flight downs in the first place ... ???

 

[webmaster]

Roger that; my point was otherwise, why WOULD God have created flight downs in the first place ... ???

Sadly, this is one of the things that has gone away... You never FAIL an event, you are never BELOW AVERAGE... you now SOD'd (Signal of Difficulty) an event or got a Marginal or UNSAT. At least NX criteria still has the room for me to tell you you suck... but well, unfortunately I don't have any problems telling someone they suck anyways Most studs just need a wake up call, I personally didn't encounter any that weren't motivated in the FRS. I am sure the VTs in primary and advanced winnow out the rest.

 

[bunk22]

Well, we started off with, what, 9 the first year? And have scaled back as the years have gone on. It is a much smaller set, and the ones that do spectacularly well or tube the program can skew the numbers. But, aren't we talking about a HAND PICKED group of stellar individuals that should be more competitive than your average bear?

Unfotunately, I don't know how one picks top notch fliers. When or if there is only 9 or less studs, there is going to be a handful of good, bad and ugly. A guy or gal can have the best grades, kick ass on the entrance exams and suck as an aviator. I just looked through two student jackets of studs who kicked ass in API, primary and advanced ground school, did well in Primary flight traning but bombed phase I...just can't tell who is going to be stellar and who isn't. I still don' know why a WO can't go tailhook, if they make the grade.

 

[twobecrazy]

the CWOs performance through flight school appears to be below that of the traditional students.

What do you think is the major cause of this? Does anyone else have any opinions as to why this maybe happening?

 

[ChunksJR]

What do you think is the major cause of this? Does anyone else have any opinions as to why this maybe happening?

Distractions. Period. The 4 or 5 warrants that we had were older, with significantly more family "issues" than your average snot-nosed nugget wannabe.

 

[statesman]

I still don' know why a WO can't go tailhook, if they make the grade.

Doesnt this have to do with the purpose of the CWO program... which was to decrease the competitiveness for promotion for certain officer heavy platforms. With HS/HSC/HSL/HSM/VP/VQ being so officer heavy, I was under the impression that because CWO couldn't screen for DH it would produce the same number of fliers but loosen the DH competitiveness.

Thats just my understanding of the program, I'm by no means trying to come off as an authority on the subject.

Distractions. Period. The 4 or 5 warrants that we had were older, with significantly more family "issues" than your average snot-nosed nugget wannabe.

That doesn't explain the reported 'attitude' problems though.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Bunk,
I would guess that since Chopper and P-3 pukes have enlisted aircrew running around the aircraft while Bernoilli's are on wing/rotors, thats the reason CWOs fit better in those communities. CWO's would be bastard step children in the ALL O fixed wing CVN flight deck world, its bad enough sucking ass behind the boat as a JG... can't imagine it as an odd man out CWO. Witnessed the "can't take off the crow" thing with a STA dude in F-14s, made the rest of the folks around the ass clown miserable. Not competing for DH in the dog eat dog fighter world would make JO's probably wonder why the dude is taking the flight hours they could be getting qual upgrades with in jets that don't have much fatigue life left (applies to P-3's too). My 2c. Happy New Year.

 

[Jim123]

And there were also NROTC/Academy/OCS pukes that couldn't perform at the FRS either. Always made me wonder how they made it through the entire pipeline, or got pushed along. I digress...

Other than getting pushed along (it sometimes happens even though it shouldn't, and everybody knows that), I figure that out of all aviators, a very small number of them have the strange problem that once they graduate from orange to gray aircraft, something about the different environment flips a switch inside their head for the worse and they perform poorly as a result of that. Maybe it is some mistaken sense of safety and security in the orange training command aircraft vs greater responsibilities and consequences in gray aircraft, maybe some other psychological thing or personality type... who knows... But picking people like that out of the crowd in flight school is easier said than done when pretty much all flight students are stressed out by nature.

Just my pet theory. /threadjack