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Flying helos for the Army, or....?
- Thread starter helicoptergirl
- Start date
Someone asked here as to why he hated the army. I can't answer for JG's brother but I can give you some reasons as to why I do.
As a pilot you get treated pretty well. But as an officer you basically get s&*t on. Army aviation has this complex that we need to do everything like the infantry. Imagine a Navy that did things the way the black shoes did it.
Also the whole warrant thing is pretty weird. Most of the warrants I fly with either came in with a degree or were some s&%t shit hot NCO prior to flight school. We have 3 ex green berets in my unit alone.
What happens is all the experiemce is on the warrant side. My unit has no regular officers who are HAC's. So they have a complex. They can't make any real decisions in the cockpit so they make up for it when we aren't flying.
I've bitched on here beofre about the problems Army Aviation has. I'm sure you do do a search and find a past post.
As a pilot you get treated pretty well. But as an officer you basically get s&*t on. Army aviation has this complex that we need to do everything like the infantry. Imagine a Navy that did things the way the black shoes did it.
Also the whole warrant thing is pretty weird. Most of the warrants I fly with either came in with a degree or were some s&%t shit hot NCO prior to flight school. We have 3 ex green berets in my unit alone.
What happens is all the experiemce is on the warrant side. My unit has no regular officers who are HAC's. So they have a complex. They can't make any real decisions in the cockpit so they make up for it when we aren't flying.
I've bitched on here beofre about the problems Army Aviation has. I'm sure you do do a search and find a past post.
My brother says exactly what bobbybrock says. That is why he hates the Army--the management and the treatment of its people. Quality of life for the Army sucks, and they spend $00000 on their people. My brother says they need serious lessons from the AF. I think the Navy/MC is the perfect mix between the two.
goosegagnon2
Member
I don't think that is compeletly true. Some of the officers I know are very experienced pilots. The problem with Army Aviation, is that you have some USMA and OCS graduates who come in as 2nd Lt after flight school, and get shoved in a flight operations/planning job. Of course they don't have alot of experience flying, they just started, but now you take experienced warrants like you bobbybrock, who are being told what to do from this Lt, since warrants are lower on the pecking order and the RLO has more responsiblity. This is what I observed in the 1 MI brigade in Wiesbaden during an internship/school study. They flew RC-12's and most of the pilots were CW3-4s who got a fixed wing slot. In this dynamic the pecking order is somewhat queer. You have CW4s with 16 years plus of flying, at the mercy of a freshie right out of the USMA, scheduling their flight times and training schedule...of course the pressure is on the freshie to "please" the warrants..but you can't make everyone happy...thats went the warrants get pissed off...cause not everyone gets their way. I wouldn't say they are bad pilots...cause everyone goes through the same training therefore, everyone is capable of doing the same thing. RLOs do not fly as much, because of the other responsiblities, but there are plenty of officers who are damn good pilots and leaders as well. I wouldn't generalize on saying that all of the RLOs suck at flying. Yes alot of them do, but being stereotypical doesn't help the dynamic of your unit or the U.S. Army. Before I get a response, cause I know some one is going to roll in hot, warrants do have alot of experience (cause they fly all the time) but that doesn't mean officers are shitty pilots.
Goose, Bobbybrock isn't saying they aren't good pilots, he's saying the aren't Helicopter Aircraft Commanders. Rank has far less meaning in the cockpit than quals, so even if you're senior to the HAC, you still don't run the show. That's disgraceful that these guys aren't HACs. I know the CWOs are the big flyers, but still.
When I was "stuck" in Kuwait for a few days, I met a Major who had just about 1000 hours. He flew the absolute mins required per month, meaning he flew once a month for a couple hours.
He asked me about my flight time etc. and I told him I was closing in on 1000 60 hours in my first JO tour. He looked disillusioned.
He had a CWO working for him who had over 13K hours.
That's just the nature of the Army, commissioned officers fly minimally after their first tour.
He asked me about my flight time etc. and I told him I was closing in on 1000 60 hours in my first JO tour. He looked disillusioned.
He had a CWO working for him who had over 13K hours.
That's just the nature of the Army, commissioned officers fly minimally after their first tour.
Oh, I know. I've heard a similar story from a guy at my last squadron. All the CWOs got up and talked about their platform and hours. A LTCol got up and gave his stats (about 1000 as well). Then this Navy guy who worked at Pax River for his shore tour, gave his stats, w/ probably 2000 hours and only an O-3. The LTCol then left in a huff.
If that's how it's done, so be it, but it's not an excuse to not get your quals. I mean HAC? Come on!
If that's how it's done, so be it, but it's not an excuse to not get your quals. I mean HAC? Come on!
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I agree completely with how you're thinking... After all, I don't know if you guys in the Navy do it, but in the gun club if you're not in the HAC syllabus after a certain number of hours, you get FNAB'd.gatordev said: