Final Select Purgatory

[Mr Spenz]

I was hoping that I wouldn't spark a CrossFit debate, but let me try (probably futilely) to defend myself. I was initially skeptical of it, especially given all the vitriol directed towards CrossFit on the Internet. However, they offered a free trial workout, so I figured I didn't have anything to lose. With lots of free time this summer, I wanted to increase the intensity of my workouts in preparation for OCS. As an exercise novice, I was enticed by the prospect of more personalized training rather than trying to figure things out for myself.

My experience has far surpassed my expectations. Contrary to what I had feared, the trainers are supportive and enthusiastic. I'm never encouraged to push myself harder than I am able, and the focus is always on proper form and preventing injury rather than getting the "high score," either in reps or weight. Maybe my "box" is just different from the norm, but if so, then it is different in a way that is working for me. In addition, several of the other participants are active-duty military (O-5's, mostly) studying at the nearby Army War College, which is a great networking opportunity for me.

This may also have a lot to do with my fitness background (or, more accurately, lack thereof). It wasn't until my late 20's that I started taking my health seriously, and not until my early 30's that I ever set foot in a gym. Working out at CrossFit has been the first time I have even touched a weight lifting bar since high school gym class (when I couldn't lift the bar, the gym "teacher" sent me to the library). I'm getting up early (classes start at 6am), challenging myself with a wide variety of exercises that I've never done before, and learning more about the military and military life. Seems like good preparation for OCS to me.

If you'd like to hash this out more, feel free to send me a PM, I'd hate to derail this thread any further.

Well written post. A lot of the IPs do crossfit down here. I am sure I lift more and have a better range of motion than the "average weight lifter".

 

[brogdawg32]

No please do it here. I would love to hear what you come up with. As for Debbie downer...no it's just most the stuff I read I respond to be because it either stupid or bad gouge. But please I would love to hear more personal bad gouge about how crossfit is the worst thing to happen to the weight lifting community.

I'm just going to let this go as to not cause too huge of a fight.

 

[Mr Spenz]

You've been rude to me personally before and I've seen to other people as well, almost commented on another thread about it on one of your responses to someone else, but I didn't say anything to not start a fight when it didn't concern me. Now I will say that congrats on being in A-pool or wherever you are, but it doesn't give you the right to be a royal grade A jackass to people on here. I'm not sure if you've developed that art form or if it comes naturally

I'm just looking to hear your personal opinion of how cross fit is bad.

 

[brogdawg32]

I'm just looking to hear your personal opinion of how cross fit is bad.

Was hoping I got the edit in before you saw it, I apologize for snapping.

I don't think it is "bad", just inefficient for about 95% of the participants. I can outline my thoughts more formally on a computer, I'm not challenging effectiveness, just safety and efficiency.

 

[Mr Spenz]

Was hoping I got the edit in before you saw it, I apologize for snapping.

I don't think it is "bad", just inefficient for about 95% of the participants. I can outline my thoughts more formally on a computer, I'm not challenging effectiveness, just safety and efficiency.

It's actually more safe in the sense no cross fit box has open operations without a cert. level I coach also every box has a transition period to show people the movements to keep them safe. Crossfitters tend to be stronger, faster and fitter.

 

[brogdawg32]

I believe level 1 cert takes 24 hours.

http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-and-the-ugly

Best I can produce while on my iphone and don't have time to structure my own formal argument. I don't agree with everything, but the majority of the sentiments expressed there are spot on in my
opinion.

 

[Fronch]

http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-and-the-ugly

Interesting, and I mostly agree with it. It reinforces the idea that I seem to have "lucked" into a box with competent trainers. The author's (repeatedly stated) point that CrossFit is exercise rather than training seems perfectly reasonable to me, and consistent with my observations and experience. I am not looking for training. My physical goals are largely to maintain my current weight and fitness level, and successfully complete OCS. I'm not looking to become an avid powerlifter or to run a 6 minute mile, nor do I expect CrossFit to change that.

I do, however, take your point that many other people may go into CrossFit with the wrong goals or with incorrect expectations. I think that the article you linked would be important reading for anyone considering joining.

 

[AaronJB]

Crossfit = win

 

[Brownsound]

Quality control varies drastically from box to box. I'm an avid x-fitter and have been going for the last year and change. I've gone through three different boxes and can tell you first hand that not all boxes are created equally. At my first one after the on ramp, I was pretty convinced I had acquired an invisibility cloak because that was the last time I was instructed (sort of exaggerated). Safety is also highly contingent upon the knowledge of the person doing the programming at the box. I've seen irresponsible decisions such as dead lifts for 50+ reps @ 225 lbs RX. I max out my DL around 460-500, and I know 100% that my lower back and form will be compromised at that weight and volume. I personally skipped that class but am relatively sure that at least someone that day was misguided and encouraged to go all out and power through that particular wod.

As I jump from box to box I am personally inspecting and looking for the next one that is of "higher quality" and can tailor to my ever growing needs. I just find it interesting that I observed such a large deviation in quality all within ~3 miles of my front door.I cannot even imagine across how drastic it would be across the country (extrapolating my observations). This can be a daunting task for someone brand new to athletics/weightlifting. However, it can be useful to notice that the surge in cross fit is getting people up off their arse and exposing them to a wide array of high intensity effective movements, that when done correctly can lead dramatic fitness gains. You just got to be careful and do your own research.

 

[Mr Spenz]

You actually do train with Crossfit. This article is more based on the WOD (Workout Of the Day) which is exercise not training. Though he neglects that most boxes (the one's I have been too) spend time doing a Strength WOD which is training your muscles with different lifts before a WOD. I train to lift heavy with squats, front squats, overhead squats, cleans, deadliest, etc. I also over time have increased my PR. Ultimately I am training my muscles as I am getting stronger but I am also doing a METCON (metabolic conditioning) which is usually a WOD and that keeps me in good cardiovascular shape. Only thing I truly agree with is the coaching and how fast a person can get a level 1. But personally I will not train from someone that I know more than and am in better shape. They also talk about a plateau which I also don't agree with, that is the whole point intense variable movements is that you don't plateau. The only way someone would plateau is from doing a certain WOD multiple times in a short period of time. Though most boxes will do a certain WOD and you won't see it again for months which then allows for the most part so an increase in performance.

 

[jander12]

I don't "Crossfit," but I don't hate... by the way Fronch, I fixed it for you.

...I was initially skeptical of it, especially given all the vitriol directed towards CrossFit on the Internet. However, they offered a free picture of Rich Froning and Dan Bailey/quote]

Edit: nvm... link didn't go to the picture

 

[brogdawg32]

Intense variable movements aka muscle confusion aka p90x does not break you through any plateau unless you've been doing a specific lift or exercise for an extended period of time. That's just by definition and how our muscles work. A different work out of the day with different movements not to be seen again for weeks, again, just exercise.

The rest of your statement however I agree with, because you're supplementing powerlifting WITH Crossfit. It's much different than ONLY doing cardio/WOD.

The problem is that you sound like the 2% of people who will make great progress on Crossfit, in that you're lifting heavy, aren't an amateur in the gym, and eating/recovery enough to heavy lift and WOD. The rest of the people who try out Crossfit ARE amateurs in the gym, or are using it as their entry point to getting in shape. It's for those people that i cite concerns about safety and efficiency. Powerlifting has built in safety measures with linear progression, Crossfit safety varies greatly from box to box.

 

[Fronch]

The rest of the people who try out Crossfit ARE amateurs in the gym, or are using it as their entry point to getting in shape. It's for those people that i cite concerns about safety and efficiency.

I'm clearly in that latter camp. What's my alternative? I could pay extravagantly for a personal trainer (who might also be poorly trained), or I could go to a gym and try to figure things out on my own (leading almost certainly to self-injury). I see where your concerns are coming from, but I just don't know what kind of other options amateurs like me have.

 

[brogdawg32]

I'm clearly in that latter camp. What's my alternative? I could pay extravagantly for a personal trainer (who might also be poorly trained), or I could go to a gym and try to figure things out on my own (leading almost certainly to self-injury). I see where your concerns are coming from, but I just don't know what kind of other options amateurs like me have.

That was the beauty of the internet for me. Read/watch videos. Start with extremely light weight. Work on form. Read more tips on form, watch more videos. Eventually you're lifting heavy weight SAFELY because the pace you're increasing weight at is slow, structure, and controlled.

Rippletoe's starting strength was like 130 pages of how to squat/bench/dead/press. Read every page before i attempted the movements. Started with just the bar or maybe 95lb.

I guess the problem can be solved for you then by A)getting a good box with good instructors and B) making sure you lift heavy while crossfitting

Source: by all standards I was the definition of an amateur lifter 9 months ago

 

[Fronch]

That was the beauty of the internet for me. Read/watch videos. Start with extremely light weight. Work on form. Read more tips on form, watch more videos. Eventually you're lifting heavy weight SAFELY because the pace you're increasing weight at is slow, structure, and controlled.

The problem (or maybe just my problem: I'm acutely aware that I might not be speaking for many people here) is that watching videos or reading a book isn't a guarantee of good form. I can't easily watch myself nor am I knowledgeable enough to know when I'm doing things correctly or not. Another perhaps-unique benefit of my CrossFit box is that the classes are small; there were 4 of us there this morning doing power cleans. The trainer was with me almost constantly, critiquing my form and making sure that I was doing it right (I usually wasn't). Here's the thing: I didn't know that I was doing it wrong; I needed that feedback.

I think things are very different for someone like you who I assume has been an athlete most of your life.