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OCS Failed DP at meps and selected NFO

pilot_man

No longer the biggest Hornet asshole on AW.
pilot
Google the actual tricks but it has to do with moving your head left and right while taking the test to get the circle to stand out more.
 

NavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Have you ever thought that maybe that DP exam given by NAMI is flawed and might be the actual problem? If people have actual doctors telling them their DP is fine but then fail the NAMI test it sounds like the NAMI exam is where the problem is.

someone else agrees

I've said it before around here, I failed the DP test at NAMI. I was given an NFO spot, which I didn't want, because my shitty recruiter didn't care about me. I went to a civilian doctor who said my depth perception was fine and resubmitted to pick up SNA. I've since had no issues, even landing on the boat, at night.......

I am curious where the reference is that states no civilian DP exams can be used anymore. And I agree with UInavy, don't go to be an NFO if that isn't what you want. There are techniques that can be used to aid one in passing that stupid ass test.
I worked with a recruiter that would help the candidates find a eye doc to pass them on the DP test, and as far as I know not one passed the NAMI DP test, it was the "take it until you pass it" idea and it didn't work out.

You sound like one of the exceptions that just had a bad test day, but there are many more that it isn't just a bad test day it is that they don't have DP

N3M doesn't need a reference, they can decide what sources to accept medical documents from, that is why if a person has a medical condition that needs a consult the consult will be conducted by an approved medical provider. They could decide next week to allow civilian DP test, but the decision to not allow civilian DP test is from a long history of people doctor shopping.

I also think that what the recruiter did is shitty, putting designators down for a candidate that they did not agree to is unacceptable.
 

pilot_man

No longer the biggest Hornet asshole on AW.
pilot
I worked with a recruiter that would help the candidates find a eye doc to pass them on the DP test, and as far as I know not one passed the NAMI DP test, it was the "take it until you pass it" idea and it didn't work out.

You sound like one of the exceptions that just had a bad test day, but there are many more that it isn't just a bad test day it is that they don't have DP

N3M doesn't need a reference, they can decide what sources to accept medical documents from, that is why if a person has a medical condition that needs a consult the consult will be conducted by an approved medical provider. They could decide next week to allow civilian DP test, but the decision to not allow civilian DP test is from a long history of people doctor shopping.

I also think that what the recruiter did is shitty, putting designators down for a candidate that they did not agree to is unacceptable.
You missed the point. If the test performed by NAMI is a deficient test and could produce false negatives then that should be fixed. If people with no issues with their depth perception (as decided by actual optometrists) are failing the NAMI administered test, then there is an issue with NAMI's process. Sure, NAMI can do whatever NAMI wants to do, but if they are rejecting otherwise good applicants because of a flawed testing system then they are fucking stupid. Sure, there might be those that try to cheat the system but you could have actual Navy optometrists do further testing if negatives are seen. But since we are talking about the Department of the Navy you are right, they should just keep on keeping on.

If I wanted to be a Navy pilot, and NAMI was creating a giant, useless hurdle, I would do whatever I needed to do to get where I wanted to go.
 

NavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
You missed the point. If the test performed by NAMI is a deficient test and could produce false negatives then that should be fixed. If people with no issues with their depth perception (as decided by actual optometrists) are failing the NAMI administered test, then there is an issue with NAMI's process. Sure, NAMI can do whatever NAMI wants to do, but if they are rejecting otherwise good applicants because of a flawed testing system then they are fucking stupid. Sure, there might be those that try to cheat the system but you could have actual Navy optometrists do further testing if negatives are seen. But since we are talking about the Department of the Navy you are right, they should just keep on keeping on.

If I wanted to be a Navy pilot, and NAMI was creating a giant, useless hurdle, I would do whatever I needed to do to get where I wanted to go.
No, I didn't miss the point, I wasn't addressing the issue with NAMI test, I was addressing that I have seen people who failed at MEPS, then take multiple civilian test until they get a pass then submit that one, hence the "take it until you pass it", it is no surprise they then failed NAMI when they had to take multiple civilian test to get a single pass. If the MEPS test is so bad then why would these people have to take several civilian test in order to get a pass?
 

UInavy

Registered User
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
If the MEPS test is so bad then why would these people have to take several civilian test in order to get a pass?
The OP failed the MEPS test, right? I also failed the MEPS test. I was allowed a re-test IAW the instruction. The written guidance in the post I linked above provides multiple avenues for applicants to take different tests and pass any one of them. Forget anything that gets to N3M for a minute- just think of what MEPS and the recruiter are doing. I think what pilot_man and I are saying is that the testing process is weeding folks out unnecessarily. I want the best and most motivated pilots with me, not just the guys who got the tester who knew what they were doing and understood the MANMED / NAMI guidance and happened to have a recruiter that actually cared.

You guys as recruiters are closest to the issue. You have the means and connection to the problem to address it. Make it uncomfortable for the MEPS facility. Show them the guidance that they are contradicting. Run it up the chain. Fight for your applicants. I'm not saying that you aren't, but there is a consistent theme of "Too bad, suck it up and take what you can get" going on in a bunch of these medical-related threads. Get the best folks out to the Fleet, we need them.
 

Ironstar

New Member
Either go to OCS and ship as an SNFO or decline and pretty much risk never getting selected for an OCS program period.

Sucks for what your recruiter did but sometimes shit happens.

Do you have insight into how much worse the chances are to get selected after you turn down an ocs slot? Ins ASTB I got 68 9/8/8. mechanical engineer with 3.1 GPA and good letter of recs with one navy captain.

Do they actually not let people in the second time around just because they turned it down initially?
 

wink

VS NFO. Blue and Gold Officer
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I dont know what the deal is with DP tests now. I wonder if the machine or process is so much different then it was the dozens of times I took it and many more times I sent kids to MEPs.

Failing DP at MEPS was not a big thing for applicants in my day. It was either color or acuity. Color was most common. And that was because of the flip cards used. We just sent them for a falant test.

Unless our young'uns now have a DP deficiency at a great rate then 30-40 years ago, maybe @pilot and @UInavy on to something.

As a guy who ended up a NFO becasue of 20/30 vision and was already a civ pilot, (used to require 20/20) don't take NFO unless you really want it. I loved it. Worked for me. But the worst NFOs were guys who wanted to be pilots and never let it go. Don't be that guy. No one in the squadron likes or respects them. Your life will be miserable.

Oh, and your recruiter is awful. Never saw that kind of crap and I worked with or closely observed 10 or more officer program recruiters over the years.
 

Ironstar

New Member
I dont know what the deal is with DP tests now. I wonder if the machine or process is so much different then it was the dozens of times I took it and many more times I sent kids to MEPs.

Failing DP at MEPS was not a big thing for applicants in my day. It was either color or acuity. Color was most common. And that was because of the flip cards used. We just sent them for a falant test.

Unless our young'uns now have a DP deficiency at a great rate then 30-40 years ago, maybe @pilot and @UInavy on to something.

As a guy who ended up a NFO becasue of 20/30 vision and was already a civ pilot, (used to require 20/20) don't take NFO unless you really want it. I loved it. Worked for me. But the worst NFOs were guys who wanted to be pilots and never let it go. Don't be that guy. No one in the squadron likes or respects them. Your life will be miserable.

Oh, and your recruiter is awful. Never saw that kind of crap and I worked with or closely observed 10 or more officer program recruiters over the years.
Still trying to decide if I should risk it and Re apply or just take it. I don't think I would be one of those people that never let it go. I can make my peace with the situation I've been given. I just want to exhaust all options so I know I put it all on the table. I have read many people have wanted to be pilots but still loved NFO. I tend to have a good attitude so I'm sure I would be happy with NFO. I'm just worried about Re applying and not being selected at all
 

NavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I think what pilot_man and I are saying is that the testing process is weeding folks out unnecessarily.
That may be the case, is it best to test DP after a person is dehydrated and lack of sleep? my gut feeling is no. I am just saying from what I saw there were many who failed MEPS, then failed civilian test until they could get a pass, then went to OCS and failed it there.

The bad part is there are people like you and pilot_man who probably just had a bad day, but were able to retest and pass without issues, but all these people doctor shopping messed it up, I would say a better process would be to have an approved civilian doctor for eye consults on DP, or better yet don't give the DP test to people who are dehydrated and have a lack of sleep.
 

browntown

Member
Suggestions?
Get good at doing the Magic Eye images. I could never do those as a kid but I bought some of those books for cheap on Amazon and after a lot of practice I finally learned how to see them. After more practice, I got to the point where I could do each one within 3-5 seconds. I went from struggling with the circles test to being able to do every row with no problem.

Not that it matters because now I'm old and SNA isn't an option for me anyway though. 😆
 
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Moc1Sig

Active Member
pilot
Contributor
Still trying to decide if I should risk it and Re apply or just take it. I don't think I would be one of those people that never let it go. I can make my peace with the situation I've been given. I just want to exhaust all options so I know I put it all on the table. I have read many people have wanted to be pilots but still loved NFO. I tend to have a good attitude so I'm sure I would be happy with NFO. I'm just worried about Re applying and not being selected at all
The recruiter that put you down for all three is UNSAT. Do you have any documentation of telling him that you only plan to apply SNA only; or verbal only? Is that the officer recruiter, or just your local recruiter. I got shit advice from my local recruiter (they told me BDCP didn't even exist)(it doesn't any more), then I commuted to the district or state main office where it was a LT and a LCDR running the show, they helped me apply BDCP SNA only... I didn't get a Pro-rec the first time, but I re-applied again with better grades, new astb, another letter of rec, and an instrument rating. Did any of the additions really matter? Prob not, but just the fact that i was persistent, and I tired to make myself better, was what helped. I discussed this in my personal submission.

If you don't have DP issues and you feel confident, and I would try to practice using the Navy style test with the circles because you have to do it every year. Then stick to you guns, and re-apply, and explain the situation and what motivates you in your motivational statement.. If you think you will always have trouble with the navy test and just want to be an officer and do some cool missions than take the NFO job. Go growlers where you do most of the pilot shit anyways, and you can go to the boat and be expeditionary. Just research the NFO jobs in your waiting time. because they are rewarding, but they are all vastly different, between VAQ, VFA, especially VAW, VP, VQ; just very different day to days, and tactical focuses. Pilot jobs are all pretty similar, take off and fly different types of circles, land, exaggerated of course. SNA/SNFO, you both are responsible for each others jobs and knowledge of tactics. The only place where you just go fly from place to place fat dumb and happy is in the airlines, and COD.
 

Ironstar

New Member
The recruiter that put you down for all three is UNSAT. Do you have any documentation of telling him that you only plan to apply SNA only; or verbal only? Is that the officer recruiter, or just your local recruiter. I got shit advice from my local recruiter (they told me BDCP didn't even exist)(it doesn't any more), then I commuted to the district or state main office where it was a LT and a LCDR running the show, they helped me apply BDCP SNA only... I didn't get a Pro-rec the first time, but I re-applied again with better grades, new astb, another letter of rec, and an instrument rating. Did any of the additions really matter? Prob not, but just the fact that i was persistent, and I tired to make myself better, was what helped. I discussed this in my personal submission.

If you don't have DP issues and you feel confident, and I would try to practice using the Navy style test with the circles because you have to do it every year. Then stick to you guns, and re-apply, and explain the situation and what motivates you in your motivational statement.. If you think you will always have trouble with the navy test and just want to be an officer and do some cool missions than take the NFO job. Go growlers where you do most of the pilot shit anyways, and you can go to the boat and be expeditionary. Just research the NFO jobs in your waiting time. because they are rewarding, but they are all vastly different, between VAQ, VFA, especially VAW, VP, VQ; just very different day to days, and tactical focuses. Pilot jobs are all pretty similar, take off and fly different types of circles, land, exaggerated of course. SNA/SNFO, you both are responsible for each others jobs and knowledge of tactics. The only place where you just go fly from place to place fat dumb and happy is in the airlines, and COD.

Thanks for the advice. My main goal when I started this was the serve my country as an officer. Pilot is something I started obsessing over the last year. But at this point I hate my mechanical engineering job and want to do something besides look at drawings haha. I might just end up going NFO. Going to talk to the officer in charge of recruiting for the district on the phone next week to see options, but NFO isn't sounding bad at all. I think I'll like it and again, my main goal has always been to serve.
 
Have you ever thought that maybe that DP exam given by NAMI is flawed and might be the actual problem? If people have actual doctors telling them their DP is fine but then fail the NAMI test it sounds like the NAMI exam is where the problem is.

someone else agrees

I've said it before around here, I failed the DP test at NAMI. I was given an NFO spot, which I didn't want, because my shitty recruiter didn't care about me. I went to a civilian doctor who said my depth perception was fine and resubmitted to pick up SNA. I've since had no issues, even landing on the boat, at night.......

I am curious where the reference is that states no civilian DP exams can be used anymore. And I agree with UInavy, don't go to be an NFO if that isn't what you want. There are techniques that can be used to aid one in passing that stupid ass test.
Did they not have you put on the special glasses for the circle test at NAMI? I got worried when I saw it because I failed it at MEPS years ago but then they had me put on these big glasses things and the circles jumped out immediately.
 

pilot_man

No longer the biggest Hornet asshole on AW.
pilot
Did they not have you put on the special glasses for the circle test at NAMI? I got worried when I saw it because I failed it at MEPS years ago but then they had me put on these big glasses things and the circles jumped out immediately.
This was a really long time ago but I didn't have any issues with NAMI, I only failed at MEPS and wasn't told about it. I get that we don't want people cheating on tests but how many cheaters were there really? And how many mishaps have we had in the last 10 years because someone didn't have depth perception?

What we will never know is how many qualified perspective SNAs did we turn around because we were worried about a couple that tried to cheat the system.
 
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