FAA Shutdown

[phrogpilot73]

My favorite required statement from ATC: "Not in sight from Chambers Tower, landing will be at your own risk." When is it NOT at our own risk? What risk does ATC face? Spilling hot coffee in their lap?

 

[ATCS]

So what would you rather have him say? "I can niether confirm or deny you are landing at the correct airport... good luck"?

 

[ac2NASTY]

My favorite required statement from ATC: "Not in sight from Chambers Tower, landing will be at your own risk." When is it NOT at our own risk? What risk does ATC face? Spilling hot coffee in their lap?

Did this at Patuxent River also for closed field operations. The individuals that work in the tower (at least at Pax) when the field is closed are ground qualified, nothing more. One ground controller and one other person which is usually the new guy with no quals or the people who are medically down and can't control. Quite the team!!

Knowing all the behind-the-scene shady shit that takes place within a Navy ATC facility/operations I am quite nervous since I will soon be on the other side of the radio.

 

[ATCS]

Did this at Patuxent River also for closed field operations. The individuals that work in the tower (at least at Pax) when the field is closed are ground qualified, nothing more. One ground controller and one other person which is usually the new guy with no quals or the people who are medically down and can't control. Quite the team!!

Knowing all the behind-the-scene shady shit that takes place within a Navy ATC facility/operations I am quite nervous since I will soon be on the other side of the radio.

If the field is closed, why is anyone in the tower? Especially if they are not qualified. I suppose they are simply passing advisory information like a FBO might do on a unicom at an uncontrolled field. Still a piss poor idea.

 

[phrogpilot73]

So what would you rather have him say? "I can niether confirm or deny you are landing at the correct airport... good luck"?

I just think it's a funny phrase to use. I can auger it into the ground whether there's a controller in the tower that can see me, or if it's a non-tower controlled field. The risk is always mine.

 

[ac2NASTY]

If the field is closed, why is anyone in the tower? ...

That's the Navy for you!

Actually, I think it's those pesky VQ guys who like to go on all day flights and return at 0300. They need somebody in the tower to coordinate deer sweeps, turn on the lighting, and setup a PAR if the weather is bad. Very inconsiderate of them because they always return right in the middle of our movies/naps.

 

[ATCS]

I just think it's a funny phrase to use. I can auger it into the ground whether there's a controller in the tower that can see me, or if it's a non-tower controlled field. The risk is always mine.

I'm not really sure what the Navy is doing having unqualified people telling pilots "landing is at you own risk". It is not the intention of the Air Traffic Procedures manual (7110.65) for this as a warning of such. The intent of the phrase "Not in sight landing will be at you own risk" is to notify the pilot that the control tower does not have him or the landing area in sight and therefore they can not confirm the area is clear of obstructions or personnel. It is meant to raise the level of awareness of possible safety hazards that the controller is unable to see.

As far as the Navy putting the duty aimen in the tower that isn't qualified to give instruction. ... I am at a loss for that. I guess it is cheaper to pay them then install an ATIS and say the tower is closed and it now becomes an uncontrolled field.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I'm not really sure what the Navy is doing having unqualified people telling pilots "landing is at you own risk". It is not the intention of the Air Traffic Procedures manual (7110.65) for this as a warning of such. The intent of the phrase "Not in sight landing will be at you own risk" is to notify the pilot that the control tower does not have him or the landing area in sight and therefore they can not confirm the area is clear of obstructions or personnel. It is meant to raise the level of awareness of possible safety hazards that the controller is unable to see.

I think you're confusing my post with ac2nasty's. At NAS Norfolk, there are two towers - one at Chambers Field, and one at the Heliport. Chambers field is manned 24/7 by air traffic controllers, the Heliport is staffed from 0700-2300 M-F. We normally check in with Heliport tower, but if we're talking to Chambers - then the required statement is made.

Ultimately, I know why they're saying it - but again, I think you miss why I find it humorous. You can tell me all day until you're blue in the face that there's 3 H-60's, 2 53's, a tug, two dogs, a cat, and santa's sleigh fouling the runway at the heliport - and yet I am still capable of aiming for them and crashing into them if I want. However, I value my life and want to return home to PSW every night, so whether you've warned me about it or not - I avoid them. Me landing safely is ALWAYS a risk that I accept. A tower controller is not sitting next to me, moving the controls to save my ass.

 

[ATCS]

I think you're confusing my post with ac2nasty's. At NAS Norfolk, there are two towers - one at Chambers Field, and one at the Heliport. Chambers field is manned 24/7 by air traffic controllers, the Heliport is staffed from 0700-2300 M-F. We normally check in with Heliport tower, but if we're talking to Chambers - then the required statement is made.

Ultimately, I know why they're saying it - but again, I think you miss why I find it humorous. You can tell me all day until you're blue in the face that there's 3 H-60's, 2 53's, a tug, two dogs, a cat, and santa's sleigh fouling the runway at the heliport - and yet I am still capable of aiming for them and crashing into them if I want. However, I value my life and want to return home to PSW every night, so whether you've warned me about it or not - I avoid them. Me landing safely is ALWAYS a risk that I accept. A tower controller is not sitting next to me, moving the controls to save my ass.

No mI didn't confuse the two posts. I was just trying to kill two birds with one stone (no pun intended) Yes I did catch your point that you are the one that is risking his life, limb, yada yada yada. Heard it all before, just explaining to you the meaning of the phrase from my perspective, and requirements.

 

[BusyBee604]

Yes I did catch your point that you are the one that is risking his life, limb, yada yada yada. Heard it all before, just explaining to you the meaning of the phrase from my perspective, and requirements.

Overkill, use a little class...
BzB

 

[ATCS]

Phrogpilot73, I wasn't trying to bust your nads (regardless of what this numnuts above me said), it's just that you were overstating the obvious.

 

[phrogpilot73]

BusyBee is hardly a numnuts. You on the other hand, are demonstrating that you are.

This thread is done.