Random8145
Registered User
Just curious, but why are they using SUVs? Why not say Humvees?
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Europe under extreme duress
- Thread starter Randy Daytona
- Start date
Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
For Russian SUV is sacred cow. All bandits of StPetersberg drove SUVs in 90s. Putin is from there
The issue is much more complex than simply giving the Ukrainians fighter jets and tanks, first issue being is where they would come from? While some NATO countries have Russian-origin equipment there are a lot of questions to be asked about how much they have, how much work do they need to have done to them to make them usable by the Ukrainians, how to get them there and what do we do for our allies that are now without some vital military equipment?
It makes much more sense to continue to ship them much easier to use, transport and readily available weapons like ATGM's and MANPAD's along with the basics like ammo, uniforms and body armor for now.
Random8145
Registered User
Interesting thread by a journalist in Russia about why the Russian military is so bad: Why the Russian Army Is So Weak
I think history will indicate the Russia all along has been a paper riger - whether its the Soviets or the autocracy of post 1991. And its ethic and cultural - about whom Russians are. Our technological might and cooperative culture and cognitive strength in our military would topple the Russian military in a heartbeat. Giving the people of Russia a taste of free enterprise and representative government would be like curing cancer or discovering a vaccine.
Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Deeper, I think. You closed your Civil War - the hardest task a nation may face. Russians still wage their CW, knowing not who they are.
I think your other points are correct. I think this one is less so, and probably falls into the category of our attitudes toward Afghanistan, Vietnam, and a few other places we’ve gone and said “don’t worry, all you need is a little American democracy.” Don’t get me wrong, still a huge homer for American democracy, but a little hesitant about spreading that promise these days.
Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
No, I think @ChuckMK23 is right. The one and only economical policy Russia is using from Peter the Great till today is merchantilism as such, based on presupposition that trade is the zero sum game: if one gets profit, the other fails. Namely this approach nowadays Russia still exploits trading gas and oil: it has goods, the others have money. It works for any but it doesn't work for all, since Brits discouvered it in 1870s when Germany started to back France in manufacturing the goods which were better than British ones. Russians were blunt enough to believe in old merchantilism all XIX and XX centuries, and when Bolshevics killed all liberal art education in Russia this stone age in brains became concrete. Now we are seeing the end of this era.
@Max the Mad Russian looks like a Buyan-M DDG is laying out some serious doom on Ukraine...an MH-60R / P-8 would take care of that nicely.
Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
8-cells VLS only. If the USN DDGs escorting the single CSG fire all their TLAMs it'd be more than all Russian sea-based Calibers launched during entire campaign for now.
Random8145
Registered User
I think it depends when talking about the Soviets. From what I've read, the Soviet military had more rigorous standards than does the current Russian military, and the thing is that with the Soviet Union, it wasn't just Russia, but Russia combined with the other nations that together made up the Soviet Union. Then the Soviet Union itself was a part of the Warsaw Pact, so there was a sizable number of forces.
I would have to disagree on the "giving the people of Russia a taste of free enterprise and representative government" bit. We tried that in the 1990s and it bombed spectacularly. Also, current Russia does have free enterprise, just not to the degree as other Western nations. Giving people who have never had it anywhere a taste of free enterprise and representative government in their own country won't work, what works is if you can give people a taste of free enterprise and representative government with all the institutions it requires to function somewhat properly as it does in the United States/Canada/United Kingdom/Australia/Germany/etc...i.e., you need, in addition to free enterprise and representative government, a whole developed legal and court system, a whole set of laws regarding treatment of workers, the environment, safety of products produced, laws checking corruption of public officials by special interests, intellectual property laws, laws regarding bankruptcy (if you try to start a business and it fails and you go bankrupt, do you just get sent to prison?), a developed financial and banking system, professional business management who know how to run and manage businesses, etc...plus basically the whole educated class of people to operate all of these institutions.
Otherwise, if you just go for a free-for-all, as was done with Russia in the 1990s, you end up with utter chaos and the populace concluding "This sucks!" It took the United States over a century to really develop these institutions ourselves, and to a degree they are still a work in progress. Other countries similarly. Also we had the foundation of English common law and the colonial economies that we built off of.
Random8145
Registered User
Yet another Russian general has been killed, Lt. General Yakov Rezantsev.
And a Ukrainian babushka whose village was shelled heavily, upon being occupied by Russian soldiers, went out and thanked the Russian soldiers for liberating them and invited them (eight guys) to have a special pie she made. Said pie was poisoned and she killed all eight.
And a Ukrainian babushka whose village was shelled heavily, upon being occupied by Russian soldiers, went out and thanked the Russian soldiers for liberating them and invited them (eight guys) to have a special pie she made. Said pie was poisoned and she killed all eight.
I will disagree. From the end of WW2 until the widespread development and use of precision weapons, NATO would have had a very difficult time stopping multiple Soviet tank armies deployed on a scale that dwarfs what is being used in Ukraine. 52,000 tanks….
Warsaw Pact - Wikipedia
Our technology advantage is in design - but vulnerable due semiconductors being manufactured overseas (particularly TMSC in Taiwan) as well as the refining of rare earth metals in China.
Would the Russians want free enterprise? Or would they associate that with the free for all of the imposition of shock capitalism that left many destitute in the 90’s?
Meanwhile, from Ian Bremmer:
The number of countries who have actually sanctioned Russia:
Take that map and change the title to “nations with functioning economies” and (with the exception of India and China) it would be just as accurate.I will disagree. From the end of WW2 until the widespread development and use of precision weapons, NATO would have had a very difficult time stopping multiple Soviet tank armies deployed on a scale that dwarfs what is being used in Ukraine. 52,000 tanks….
Warsaw Pact - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Our technology advantage is in design - but vulnerable due semiconductors being manufactured overseas (particularly TMSC in Taiwan) as well as the refining of rare earth metals in China.
Would the Russians want free enterprise? Or would they associate that with the free for all of the imposition of shock capitalism that left many destitute in the 90’s?
Meanwhile, from Ian Bremmer:
The number of countries who have actually sanctioned Russia:
View attachment 34730
True enough, but still, that is a lot of raw materials, a lot of manufacturing and a majority of the world’s population.